Cubes


  • PC

    Many many moons ago…in a multiverse far, far away. There was this notion of cubes, different color cubes of many varieties and these cubes powered various wands, staves, and assorted things.

    Does that mechanic live in this Daerma/V’Ral 2.0 Universe?

    If so can we get Dwarf (or Cloud if he has it) to post the particulars behind the mechanic.


  • DM

    @halfgiant said in Cubes:

    Many many moons ago…in a multiverse far, far away. There was this notion of cubes, different color cubes of many varieties and these cubes powered various wands, staves, and assorted things.

    Does that mechanic live in this Daerma/V’Ral 2.0 Universe?

    If so can we get Dwarf (or Cloud if he has it) to post the particulars behind the mechanic.

    oh holy fuck I forgot about cubes.


  • PC

    ahh, yes - my old powersource idea 😉 which i started to tweak for 10e - lemme see what i had…

    originally, cubes were different colors based on their level - which MAY have even predated my first laptop (think it did)… so i’d have to dig thru paper to try 'n find THAT !

    in 10e, the magical theory i was pondering went thusly :

    just as magic has a “base” energy level it starts at…
    so do weapons and armor…

    magic items altogether have the base item (sword, armor, wand, etc) PLUS a power source (+1, +2, etc) and some of them also have an area for a focus crystal or essence slot. in wands its the tip, which is usually replaceable - weapons and armor may be as well. in these cases, the focus crystal or essence channels the power source thru itself to generate the effect. in practical terms, this allows for, say - a wand of fireballs to have its tip changed out and generate frostballs, acid balls or what have you.

    extraordinarly crafted items (or ones crafted from extraordinary components) will support not only different focuses but also upgraded power sources (producing stronger effects and whatnot).

    eternal vs temporary - or the difference between what powers your +1 sword and his wand of magic missiles…

    the power source of a +1 sword is designed to release a tiny amount of energy across the lifetime of the weapon. each swing it basically releases a small “spark” doing 1 point of extra damage and another spark which makes the wielder slightly more accurate (or it could also be argued that the spark makes the sword momentarily harder and increases penetration… whatever way you wanna look at it. +1 to hit and +1 damage = 2 points per round.) given the average battle length of 6 rounds, the sword will provide you 1000 points of damage across 166 rooms, or roughly 5 dungeon levels (presumably by that time you’ll be high enough xp level to have acquired a +2 sword).

    the power source of a wand of magic missiles is designed to release 2-5 times the damage (d4+1) with unerring accuracy. accordingly, its power source burns out after approximately 100 uses. max damage output 500 points.

    so, if we took the power supply from the +1 sword and jammed it into the wand… it would fire off a magical dart, doing a single point of damage each round IF it successfully hit (at its +1 bonus). taking the wands power supply and putting it in the sword would likely bump the damage output of the sword to 1.5 (d8+d4+1) and cause it to hit with every swing. until it burned out 100 swings later. given the average battle length of, say, 6 rounds… after 16-20 or so rooms of the dungeon, your sword turns to ash. not a good situation to find yourself in.

    now lets apply it to my new 10e weapon/item concept. your +1 sword (+1 to hit, d8+1 damage) is either a mundane model (no accessory slots) or a higher grade one which has interchangeable parts. the wands power source is a 2nd lvl one (now) and its focus crystal is 2nd lvl magic missile (force energy).

    option 1) installing the focus crystal (alone) on the sword (if it had an accessory slot) would allow the sword to operate as a forceblade, having +1 to hit and striking for 3d4 damage - but with a cumulative 1% chance of smoking the swords original power supply.

    option 2) would be to implant the wands power source into the sword (alone). while both items use the same “level” of power source, one is capped to last years, the other uncapped for better output. this would, in effect, “overpower” the original enchantments on the sword, doubling both the to hit bonus (to +2) AND doubling the swords base damage (2d8) - but with a 2% cumulative chance EVERY SWING of destroying the sword entirely.

    option 3) would be to bond the wands focus crystal to the wands power source and implant both in an available accessory slot. this is the “proper” way to use the new design. this allows the wielder of the sword to use it normally, kick on the extra juice as a forceblade (+2 to hit, 3d4+2 damage) or launch magic missiles from it (2 missiles @ 1d4+1 ea), burning off a charge from the bonded crystal/power source each round its enhanced power is used (in effect, the two power sources temporarily harmonize, giving the sword a dual power source to draw from - at least while the wand source lasts).

    conversely, taking the power source of the sword and implanting it into the wand would give it unlimited charges, but reduce damage to a single point per missile. it’d take the power source from a +3 sword (d4+1=5, avg 2.5 so rounding up to 3) to let the wand function normally, but with unlimited charges. you could also bond/concentrate the power sources from 3 different +1 swords together to generate the same effect 🙂

    hmmm… i think the logistics of this solution would be beyond the ken of most players and DMs… perhaps i should implement it later…

    *** end of original notes ***


  • PC

    That is an interesting take, I’ll look to Cloud to determine if and when he wants to integrate cube magic tech into the game (and as part of discovered treasure). As a newly minted Artificer i am keenly interested in it, and the game mechanics but it does sound like the idea may need to bake a little longer. Some questions that pop immediately to mind are -

    How do they get recharged?
    Can they be crafted?
    What are the various types of cubes? Different colors, energy types? sizes?
    Are they interchangeable between item interface types or are there restrictions? do they stack/aggregate? how does overcharging work?
    Do metamagic feats affect cubes?

    Food for thought.


  • DM

    How do they get recharged?

    In this verse, they recharge naturally. Rates undetermined yet. They can be forcefully quick charged.

    Can they be crafted?

    They are always crafted, made with manacite.

    What are the various types of cubes? Different colors, energy types? sizes?

    Physical size is pretty much always the same. Storage size varies based on manacite quality. Colors based on energy types as well as “generic”

    Are they interchangeable between item interface types or are there restrictions? do they stack/aggregate? how does overcharging work?

    Trying to blow yourself up already?

    Do metamagic feats affect cubes?

    Generally the feats are used in the item creation and just cause the item to use more points per activation.


  • DM

    @halfgiant said in Cubes:

    That is an interesting take, I’ll look to Cloud to determine if and when he wants to integrate cube magic tech into the game (and as part of discovered treasure). As a newly minted Artificer i am keenly interested in it, and the game mechanics but it does sound like the idea may need to bake a little longer.

    Basically I like the idea but still have to think about implementation.


  • PC

    How does one go about refilling a cube?


  • PC

    can’t remember how they were refilled originally - but logistically speaking i’d think the ole’ dweomerflow method would still work fine.

    obelisk could flash-fill 'em, obviously - though you’d better bribe him with “candy” beforehand or he might eat a few

    so long as a single “charge” remained in the cube, it would slowly refill in the Manaverse - much quicker if taken to the Manethereal plane (kinda like how a magnet slowly attracts iron filings and particulates out of smoke) - like draws like, and whatnot

    and then there’s the alchemical ways… 😆 heh heh heh. you’d be surprised at the uses for highly magical blood - which is why Dregnoth spends an inordinate amount of time plotting to acquire bits of Sorvani


  • PC

    So in the case of a rod of absorption, drawing spells or spell-like abilities into itself i assume such a device would be filling cubes? Once a cube is filled in this case i believe 50 spell levels tops off a rod, can those cubes be recycled into other devices such as wands or a staff?


  • PC

    • zap blows the dust off a folder *

    well back in the old 2e cube days, the majority of ‘charged’ magical items would only hold 1 or 2 cubes at most - each level of wizard spells and cleric spells produced different colored cubes. 1st lvl wizard spells made orange cubes, for example, and could be plugged into things like wands of magic missiles. (( orange cubes were the ones my idiot fighter Trog liked to chew on )). a cube held 10 charges of whatever level/color magic it was tuned to

    back then, the rod of absorption was often used several different ways - it ALONE amongst the rod/staff/wand category could hold twice the standard number of cubes (4) and could channel captured magic into any of the cubes that were empty or matched the incoming spell level

    i remember there were also “special” colored cubes - like the ones that powered wands of wonder, which resembled a kaliedoscope of chaotic colors…

    staves of magi could also absorb, but only held 2 cubes and so were often carried with one full and one empty. i seem to recall the staffs of magi and power shared a common BLACK cube that only a staff of magi could make - requring it to absorb several different spell colors in a kind of spell recipe.

    to answer your 2nd question, yes - cubes were universally interchangeable and could be switched between wand/staff/rod/certain rings/etc at any time, regardless of whether FULL or not. one thing i always waited for someone to do was try to shove an 18th lvl cube into a wand of magic missles or fireball wand - but, given the propensity back then for things to go grandiosely explosive, its probably better that never happened, at the time 😉

    being a vastly older and wiser dwarf than my teenage self, i must admit there needs to be a better/easier/more generic way to charge the ruddy things - prolly one of the reasons the original idea never seemed to “gel” and got left by the wayside…


  • DM

    I always liked the cube concept for powering charged items. Ever since restarting this game in the manaverse and being reminded of cubes, I have been thinking about how to implement them.

    My rough thoughts are all charged items that exist here are cube based.

    Cubes are made with manacite ore of varying density (age) as a base. The more dense the manacite, the higher power (spell level) the cube.

    Manacite is not a rare substance in lower density. It is the higher density manacite that is so rare as it takes a thousand years or more to form.

    Cubes exist from 0th level to 9th level (and beyond as we get into artifact class gear).
    Cubes also exist in self recharging and non-self recharging. Self recharging requires small amounts of higher density manacite during creation to maintain the connection to the manatheareal plane.

    Self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per hour.
    Non-self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per week.

    Self recharging costs about 10 times a non self recharging to create due to the cost of the denser manacite.

    I have still to set costs for manacite…


  • PC

    Now thats interesting, self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per hour, and non-self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per week. I like the idea of that, is there going to be a craft cube feat?

    Cubes exist from 0th level to 9th level (and beyond as we get into artifact class gear), I assume in the case of staves that have multiple power options, the cube of the highest level of spell is what you load it with, or do staves take multiple cubes for each power?

    How readily available is manacite, high quality and low quality? Can you make heavy manacite? And can a rod of heavy manacite be used in a mana reactor? Has any one made a Manacite Mythaller (manacitealler)?

    So if i have cubes i use in my wand of magic missles, I stick it in my rod of absorption and blast a bunch of magic missles at it filling up the cube I should be able to swap it back in the wand…and i’m good to go again. Agree? Disagree? Or alternatively i could wait for it to naturally recharge.

    Are cubes based on spell levels, and school of magic? Like 3rd level Divination cube? or a 5th level Evocation cube?

    Anyone ever make a Golem out of Manacite?


  • DM

    @halfgiant said in Cubes:

    Now thats interesting, self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per hour, and non-self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per week. I like the idea of that, is there going to be a craft cube feat?

    Yes

    Cubes exist from 0th level to 9th level (and beyond as we get into artifact class gear), I assume in the case of staves that have multiple power options, the cube of the highest level of spell is what you load it with, or do staves take multiple cubes for each power?

    You have to use the cube for the highest level ability if I recall correctly.

    How readily available is manacite, high quality and low quality?

    Learning about the mining and processing of Manacite was the reason for the alliance with the island kingdoms.

    Can you make heavy manacite?

    You cannot make manacite. Could you make it reactive/heavy? You are hurting my brain.

    And can a rod of heavy manacite be used in a mana reactor?

    Eventually

    Has any one made a Manacite Mythaller (manacitealler)?

    Yes, you have not met them yet.

    So if i have cubes i use in my wand of magic missles, I stick it in my rod of absorption and blast a bunch of magic missles at it filling up the cube I should be able to swap it back in the wand…and i’m good to go again. Agree? Disagree? Or alternatively i could wait for it to naturally recharge.

    You do not have blast magic missiles. You have to jsut blast any spell. It will store each spell level as a charge. So your empty 1st level cube will gain 3 charges if your rod absorbs a lightning bolt.

    Are cubes based on spell levels, and school of magic? Like 3rd level Divination cube? or a 5th level Evocation cube?

    Spell levels, not schools

    Anyone ever make a Golem out of Manacite?

    I am sure.


  • PC

    Has any one made a Manacite Mythaller (manacitealler)?

    Yes, you have not met them yet.

    the alchemist grins and nods “I made a very, very tiny one - yes. It keeps my plants growing, pots stirring, fires burning, water running and other minor stuffs. Carved a heart out of manacite and animated it. Wanna see ? Right this way…”


  • PC

    Can you make heavy manacite?

    You cannot make manacite. Could you make it reactive/heavy? You are hurting my brain.

    And can a rod of heavy manacite be used in a mana reactor?

    the alchemist glares at you
    you been sneaking into my portable cottage to read my gnotes ?? we’re not making HEAVY manacite, we’re building a decalcinator to make compressed and compacted manacite, cranking its grade up to higher than exists naturally.


  • PC

    Those are very interesting answers, so many options and paths to take. Much much to do.

    Another question given the formation of manacite due to extreme exposure of the manathereal plane over eons, what about gemstones or other forms of ore found in these areas, have they been affected as well?


  • PC

    Dwarf,

    I distantly remember in a far, far off time you had something written down about the cubes, and their colors. I don’t suppose that is lying about for you to post?


  • DM

    @halfgiant said in Cubes:

    Dwarf,

    I distantly remember in a far, far off time you had something written down about the cubes, and their colors. I don’t suppose that is lying about for you to post?

    I have found documents! info to come.


  • DM

    This is base don the old 2e modified spell list that went from 1-18 / 1-14

    Spell Level Wizard Cleric
    1 Orange Green
    2 Red Brown
    3 Yellow Pink
    4 Light Blue Indigo
    5 Dark Blue White
    6 Violet Rust
    7 Maroon Lavender
    8 Dark Green Platinum
    9 Beige Chromatic
    10 Pale Yellow Black & White
    11 Navy Blue Black & Red
    12 Turquoise Red & White
    13 Gold Incandescent Rose
    14 Bronze Blood Red
    15 Silver
    16 Brass
    17 Copper
    18 Steel
    Power Level Wizard Cleric
    Lesser Dark Gray ?
    Medium Glowing Purple ?
    Greater ?Black? ?

  • DM

    This is not what will be implemented. THis is for historical reference.

    I will be implementing cubes. My goal is by CabinCon.