Green Orc/Blue Slaad/Ceaser with Croutons


  • PC

    Character concept for Caesar to consider for the Orc. If your interested.

    Fighter 5/Hulking Hurler 3/War Hulk 8. (Assumes 16th level character concept)

    Slaad Strength
    18(base)
    +4(racial modifier)
    +6(Belt of Giant Strength)
    +8(4 Ability Score Increases/2 per increase)
    +5(Manual of Gainful Exercise)
    +8(Size modifier - not sure about this one, need to do more research)
    +16 (8 levels of war hulk)
    Total: 65 Strength - With buffs this could go significantly higher.

    Now things get really interesting.

    Natural Heavyweight Feat (x2 carrying capacity)
    Improvised Weapon Feat

    A Hulking Hurler can throw anything that he can carry as a light load (medium with Overburdened Heave). For a 58 Str Large character, that’s 51200 lbs (102400 w/OH). Combine that with the otherwise useless Natural Heavyweight feat and it becomes 102400 lbs (204800 w/OH).

    Using Improvised Weapon rules, that means the heaviest thing you can throw would deal 1027d6 damage (avg. 3594).

    Now add the Belt of the Wide Earth (x2 carrying capacity again!) and you can throw moons at people and things start to go from interesting to crazy.

    I have some more ideas as to how to tweak and refine this even further, but i think i captured the major muscle movements behind the optimization concept.

    There are similar builds on the forums, but i found many many mistakes/inconsistencies so i cleaned it up for post here.

    —B


  • PC

    Meant to drop this in the original post.

    Damage Calculation is in Complete Warrior - Page 159 Table 4-7

    For every additional 200 pounds of an object’s weight beyond 400 pounds, it deals an additional 1d6 points of damage if used as an improvised weapon.

    So…

    ((Objectweight-400)/200) + Strength d6


  • DM

    @halfgiant what are you using for the base Slaad race template?


  • DM

    War hulk: miniatures handbook page 22
    Hulking hurler: complete warrior page 40


  • DM

    @halfgiant said in Green Orc/Blue Slaad/Ceaser with Croutons:

    +8(Size modifier - not sure about this one, need to do more research)

    Size does not mean strength increases


  • PC

    @daermadm there were a couple of player created half-Slaad templates out there but i went conservative on the racial strength bonus since Ogre’s and Minotaurs are both considered large creatures and they both have a +8. So i downplayed it thinking a Blue Slaad probably had at least a +4.

    As a data point -
    In the Monster Manual on page 291 there is table 4-2 where it says from Medium to Large the creature gets +8 Strength and -2 Dex and +4 Con and +2 Natural Armor


  • DM

    @halfgiant said in Green Orc/Blue Slaad/Ceaser with Croutons:

    @daermadm there were a couple of player created half-Slaad templates out there but i went conservative on the racial strength bonus since Ogre’s and Minotaurs are both considered large creatures and they both have a +8. So i downplayed it thinking a Blue Slaad probably had at least a +4.

    As a data point -
    In the Monster Manual on page 291 there is table 4-2 where it says from Medium to Large the creature gets +8 Strength and -2 Dex and +4 Con and +2 Natural Armor

    That’s part of how you advance a monster. So if you had a normal blue Slaad as size medium and you advanced his hit dice to size large then you would also change the status from the monster manual to match based on those rules. So it’s not just because he is size large she has +8.

    I did not find a good template for a Slaad. So far the short term I told him just to use the stats from the monster manual but I think I’ll go dig up what you were finding and then tweak one for myself. If you could link those that be great because I still have three hours to drive home.


  • PC

    For Reference in Stacking ability scores.

    So we ensure stacking is done correctly.

    Types of Buff and Modifier Bonuses

    Armor Bonus
    An armor bonus applies to melee and ranged attack and is granted by armor or by a spell or magical effect that mimics armor. Armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to melee and ranged defense (even with natural armor bonuses) except other armor bonuses. An armor bonus doesn’t apply against touch attacks, except for armor bonuses granted by force effects (such as the mage armor spell) which apply against incorporeal touch attacks, such as that of a shadow. In our system armor applies itself to your stats automatically.

    Circumstance Modifier
    A circumstance bonus (or penalty) arises from specific conditional factors impacting the success of the task at hand.
    These are generally 1 to 1 unless stated otherwise.
    Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same source.
    A DM can give a player character a circumstance modifier whenever they feel that it is appropriate.

    Competence Bonus
    A bonus (or penalty) that modifies a character’s performance at a particular task.
    Such a bonus may apply to attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, caster level checks, or any other checks to which a bonus relating to level or skill ranks would normally apply. It does not apply on other rolls that aren’t related to a character’s level.
    Multiple competence bonuses don’t stack; only the highest bonus applies.

    Deflection Bonus
    A 1 to 1 bonus to all defensive stats (Melee, Ranged and Magic) granted by a spell or magic effect that makes attacks veer off harmlessly.
    Deflection bonuses stack with all other bonuses to melee and ranged defense (any that state they affect AC) except other deflection bonuses.
    A deflection bonus applies against touch attacks.

    Dodge Bonus
    A dodge bonus improves melee and ranged defense (and sometimes Reflex saves) resulting from physical skill at avoiding blows and other ill effects. Incidents where a modifier to a reflex save would be appropriate would be if rocks were falling and the character was aware that the rocks would fall before they did. That character would get a bonus to their reflex save to avoid the rocks.
    Dodge bonuses are rarely granted by spells. (Example: Haste)
    Dodge bonuses stack with all other bonuses to melee and ranged defense, even other dodge bonuses. Dodge bonuses apply against touch attacks. This is a 1 to 1 conversion from DnD to our system.

    Enhancement Modifier
    This is defined as a modifier that represents a change in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon. These modifiers can apply to all attacks and defenses, what they apply to is dependent on what the spell states they affect. This is the type of modifier that you get when you use enchanted weapons or armor. This type of modifier generally comes from a spell or from equipment. Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score(See above table) do not stack. Enchantments on weapons do not apply to the stacking limitation. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies.

    Luck Modifier
    A modifier that represents good fortune. These can affect whatever stat is stated in the spell but generally will affect your attack bonus.
    Multiple luck bonuses on the same character or object do not stack. Only the highest luck bonus applies.

    Morale Modifier
    A modifier representing the effects of greater hope, courage, and determination.This bonus can be seen with a bards inspire courage ability.
    Multiple morale bonuses on the same character do not stack. Only the highest morale bonus applies.
    Nonintelligent creatures (creatures with an Intelligence of 0 or no Intelligence at all) cannot benefit from moral bonuses.

    Natural Armor Modifier
    A modifier to Melee and Ranged Defense (AC) resulting from a creature’s naturally tough hide.
    Natural armor’s bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Melee and Ranged Defense (Specifially those that modify the Armor Class (even with armor bonuses) ) except other Natural Armor Modifier.
    Some magical effects (such as the barkskin spell) grant an enhancement bonus to the creature’s existing natural armor bonus, which has the effect of increasing the Natural Armor’s overall bonus to Melee and Ranged Defense( Armor Class). A natural armor bonus doesn’t apply against touch attacks.

    Profane Modifier
    A modifier that stems from the power of evil. This effect occurs from divine spells such as Desecrate and Unhallow, the stats affected are listed in the spell descriptions, apply the modifiers to the stats that the spells affect that we support. These are 1 to 1 modifiers unless stated otherwise.
    Multiple profane bonuses on the same character or object do not
    stack. Only the highest profane bonus applies.

    Racial Bonus
    A modifier applied because of the culture a particular creature was brought up in or because of innate characteristics of that type of creature. If a creature’s race changes (for instance, if it dies and is reincarnated), it loses all racial bonuses it had in its previous form. Racial modifiers stack with all other modifiers, and are all 1 to 1 unless stated otherwise.

    Resistance Modifier
    A modifier to saving throws that provides extra protection against harm. Multiple resistance bonuses on the same character or object do not stack. Only the highest resistance bonus applies. These are 1 to 1 unless stated otherwise.

    Sacred Modifier
    A modifier that stems from the power of good. This effect occurs from divine spells such as Consecrate and Hallow, the stats affected are listed in the spell descriptions, apply the modifiers to the stats that the spells affect that we support. These are 1 to 1 modifiers unless stated otherwise.
    Multiple sacred bonuses on the same character or object do not stack. Only the highest sacred bonus applies

    Shield Bonus
    A bonus to Melee and Ranged Defense (Armor Class) granted by a shield or by a
    spell or magic effect that mimics a shield. These bonuses are 1 to 1 unless otherwise stated. Shield bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except other shield bonuses. A magic shield typically grants an enhancement bonus to the shield’s shield bonus, which has the effect of increasing the shield’s overall bonus to AC.
    A shield bonus granted by a spell or magic item typically takes the form of an invisible, tangible field of force that protects the recipient. A shield bonus doesn’t apply against touch attacks.

    Temporary Hit Points
    Hit points gained for a limited time through certain spells (such as aid) and magical effects. Temporary hit points are gained at a 8 to 1 ratio. When a character with temporary hit points is dealt damage, deduct the damage from temporary hit points first, then deduct any remaining damage (if any) to the character’s actual (nontemporary) hit points. Temporary hit points can cause a character’s hit point total to exceed its normal maximum.

    Stacking Buffs
    Combine for a cumulative effect. In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack if they come from different sources and have different descriptors otherwise known as types as this write up refers to them by. (or no descriptors (type) at all).
    They do not stack if they have the same descriptors or come from the same source such as the same spell cast twice in succession. This would instead effectively refresh the duration of the spell once the second spell was cast or if the type states that it does not stack with other modifiers of that type. Dodge modifiers and circumstance modifiers, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified. If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus or worst penalty applies. Spell effects that do not stack may overlap, coexist independently, or render one another irrelevant, depending on their exact effects for the situation at hand.


  • PC

    @daermadm isn’t the normal Blue Slaad a Large creature? I don’t know what level the Orc is starting at but a 15ish level Blue Slaad i would image as being large. What i’m not sure about is if he has the powerful build class trait.

    I could be wrong, i thought the creature would be a +8 str.

    Let me see if i can find the half-Slaad player template…the one i found wasn’t standard rules…it was community created.


  • PC


  • DM

    @halfgiant said in Green Orc/Blue Slaad/Ceaser with Croutons:

    @daermadm isn’t the normal Blue Slaad a Large creature? I don’t know what level the Orc is starting at but a 15ish level Blue Slaad i would image as being large. What i’m not sure about is if he has the powerful build class trait.

    I could be wrong, i thought the creature would be a +8 str.

    Let me see if i can find the half-Slaad player template…the one i found wasn’t standard rules…it was community created.

    Yes it’s a size large my medium to large example was just pulling names out of the air for the purpose of illustrating how that math worked


  • DM

    @halfgiant said in Green Orc/Blue Slaad/Ceaser with Croutons:

    Slaad prestige class in Savage species.

    http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/Slaad_Brooder

    That does nothing about setting up the stats for the initial Slaad base. I had already looked at that.


  • DM

    Ok @orc here is what we are going to do.

    You are a Blue Slaad. Per the 3.5 Monster Manual, that is an ECL of 6.

    You are starting as a level 15 XP exquivalent character, so that means you have 9 levels of classes to populate sit with.

    If you want to get complicated, technically, your Blue Ceaser Slaad base takes up the first 15,000 experience of the 110,000 experience I am granting you to start with.

    But you do not get to become a 5th level fight for 10,000 experience. Any new class you take starts at needing you go go from 15,000 to 21,000 (6 to 7). So 5 levels of fighter will bring having spent 55,000 total XP of the 110,000.

    As for the Prestige classes @halfgiant tossed out there, Hurling Hulker & War Hulk, I need to work on this.

    I honestly forgot what we did about prestige classes back in the old 3.5 campaign.


  • DM

    I assume you rolled your stats (or made them up or whatever).

    Take what you originally had, and use this table for the the racial modifiers.

    Stat Modifier Note
    Strength +12 23 - 11
    Dexterity +4 15 - 11
    Constitution +8 19 - 11
    Intelligence -4 6 - 10
    Wisdom -4 6 - 10
    Charisma +0 10 - 10

    This table was calculated per the instruction on page 7 of Savage Species.

    First, determine the ability score modifiers for that mon-
    ster’s kind from the base creature’s statistics. You can derive
    ability score modifiers for any kind of creature by subtract-
    ing either 10 or 11 (whichever gives an even result) from
    each ability score in its Monster Manual entry. For example, a
    doppelganger has the following ability scores—Str 12, Dex
    13, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 13. Subtracting 10 from the
    even numbers and 11 from the odd numbers leaves racial
    modifiers of +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +2
    Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, and +2 Charisma.


  • DM

    The ECL of 6 means one stat boost from your monster “levels”


  • PC

    @daermadm So if I am understanding this correctly I need to change a few of my stats to match up with the modifiers correct ?


  • DM

    @orc said in Green Orc/Blue Slaad/Ceaser with Croutons:

    @daermadm So if I am understanding this correctly I need to change a few of my stats to match up with the modifiers correct ?

    probably. i still have not actually looked at your character sheet 😛


  • PC

    @daermadm
    HAHA,Damn you Dungeon Master !!! I changed 'em already but I can change them back if need be …Im digging this build Half G showed …I could just toss the city onto dry land … makes fighting easier when not in a bubble LOL