Spellbreakers
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So I know last we left this discussion it was 5 spellbreakers minimum at one shot, and they cost 500gp / each. Nobody could make them at the time, but you could have them made for 500gp.
I’m feeling that we are now into Epic, and on the precipice of Tier 2 that Kargin should at the very least be able to make them upon our return from the Moon Temple of Alchemical Evil.
Thoughts?
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here, let me translate that for ya Cloud…
“I know how much you’ve enjoyed getting bent over the table… how about we change it up and try dry-fucking for a change ???” -
@dwarf said in Spellbreakers:
“I know how much you’ve enjoyed getting bent over the table… how about we change it up and try dry-fucking for a change ???”
Slanderous that is, I’m a hard-working Artificer trying to make his way in the Manaverse, having to risk life and limb in the Moon Temple of Alchemical Evil w/ Dregnoth no less. And these hurtful accusations are being catapulted upon my honor and good intentions.
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Ohh shouldn’t an Ancient be able to make a spellbreaker for 50gp?
Infinite scalability baby!
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@halfgiant said in Spellbreakers:
Ohh shouldn’t an Ancient be able to make a spellbreaker for 50gp?
Infinite scalability baby!
Good thing you don’t have 50GP
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Good thing you don’t have 50GP
That hurts because it’s sooo true.
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So i was unfortunately unable to find any definitive ruling on wether a spellbreaker(s) can be used with a spell trigger activation device like a wand or a staff. And we all know if its not in the forums it doesn’t exist.
Much like metamagic feats, an Artificer can apply metamagic feats to spell triggered activation items (generally wands / staffs), can he apply spellbreakers to the same item types.
For Reference:
Spell Trigger
Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.Activation
Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 standard action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.Thoughts?
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** raises his index finger and starts to answer, then looks up the timeline and grins evilly… deciding to wait until tomorrow nights Plotting with The Manaverse session instead **
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@halfgiant said in Spellbreakers:
So i was unfortunately unable to find any definitive ruling on wether a spellbreaker(s) can be used with a spell trigger activation device like a wand or a staff. And we all know if its not in the forums it doesn’t exist.
The answer is no. Spell breakers break the logic of the spell being cast. This is why Mystra hated them so much before she mathed it out regarding about the power in versus out.
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@dwarf said in Spellbreakers:
poured 30 spell points
Also, as a reminder, spell breakers only contain 30 SP worth of power. If you do something that will need more than that, it will fail to break the spell but be used up anyway.
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@daermadm said in Spellbreakers:
@dwarf said in Spellbreakers:
poured 30 spell points
Also, as a reminder, spell breakers only contain 30 SP worth of power. If you do something that will need more than that, it will fail to break the spell but be used up anyway.
Well at least in part, isn’t that one of the reasons why we can use a minimum of 5 spellbreakers at once?
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Discussion points:
Can a spell breaker emulate a feat
Can a spell breaker break a spell from fixed range to a variable range. -
@daermadm said in Spellbreakers:
Can a spell breaker emulate a feat
Can a spell breaker break a spell from fixed range to a variable range.Well, i can’t say spell breakers can emulate any feat, but i have used them to widen an area effect similar to the Widen spell feat. I have also used them to duplicate a spell, similar to that of the twin spell ability. They also can rip the cap off a spell, a lowers resistance goes from reducing the subject’s spell resistance by 1 per caster level (maximum reduction 15) to no maximum.
The thing to remember is spell breakers were around before 3.5, so they emulate a lot of similar feats, but probably not all feats.
The also do the following :
unlock the level cap/damage dice of a spell (like 2e Fireballs, Acid Arrow doing more than 2d4 damage per round, etc)overpower spell, adding d2 roll to spell (Restoration heals 1+d2 levels, etc)
extend duration to 24 hours (defensive personal spells like Fly, etc)
permanency minor effects (created food, lesser alterations like Change Self, etc)
increase probability of success or harden failures (10% per gem, affecting enemy MR, Teleport chance, etc)
expand target area of spell (30’ radius Fireballs, Stoneskin on 2 people instead of 1, Disintegrate 2 at once, etc)
give caster temporary level boost (+1 per gem) granting access to stronger effects like fireball dice, spells he cannot cast yet, OR unlocking magics from another realm (mage casts Heal, or Town Portal, etc)
refocuses power source of spell (solarize, negatize, holy, etc - holy Stoneskins, Continual sunLight, fun fun fun)
alter defensive spell’s effect from fixed to level variable (Armor or Shield increases to 1/caster level, Negative Plane Protection stops 1 attack/lvl of caster, etc)
make a beam spell last for the entire round, opening up a scything attack (Disintegrate dusts a strip out of whomever it touched, etc)
reroll all 1’s on damage dice, 2nd gem rerolls all 2’s (so 5 gems would maximize a fireball)
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H halfgiant referenced this topic on
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@halfgiant Yes, I am aware of the list of original @dwarf known effects for them.
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break a spell from fixed range to a variable range.
- To clarify, I meant break the AoE. I want fireball to not be 15’ radius. I want it to be 5’ radius / caster level or similar.
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Emulate a feat
- I think emulating a Meta magic feat is absolutely in the pervue of spell breakers.
- Feat Emulation costs 1 Spell breaker per level adjustment of the Feat.
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@daermadm said in Spellbreakers:
Feat Emulation costs 1 Spell breaker per level adjustment of the Feat.
So to twin a spell, that would be 4 spell breakers? Or 2000gp (assuming 500gp each)
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@halfgiant said in Spellbreakers:
So to twin a spell, that would be 4 spell breakers? Or 2000gp (assuming 500gp each)
Yes. The choice on when to use a feat and when to use Spell Breakers to do something would be up to your own optimization needs at the time of casting a spell.
Twinning with a spell breaker does not affect the spell level slot, thus the spell points needed to cast, since it is an external factor.
A spell breaker has never had the ability to twin a spell. At least not in anything I have seen written. Since they were adapted into 3.5 and 10e we have played loose with letting them emulate a feat. Thus the ability to twin was introduced.
During @dwarf’s game on Friday I played with those rules, but really looked at the benefits. So when it came to your game on Sunday, I was doing it this way to have a comparison for myself.
I’m not seeing a huge issue with 1 spell breaker per level adjustment of the feat. I’m always open to discussion and counter points.
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50 gp crystals, ya say ??
“A mind crystal contains sorcerous potential, allowing a user to apply Metamagic to a spell as you cast it.”
oh, and “Can I use more than one mind crystal on the same spell?”
“No. Spells can only be bent so far before they break; one Metamagic only, please.”what would happen if the tiny-weenie WotC woke-edition writers got ahold of spellbreakers :
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1555-mind-crystals-supercharge-your-spells-with-magic(( its like they’re not even TRYING to hide it anymore
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@dwarf Well that was depressing, i had hoped over time maybe 5e would have had enough power creep to become interesting. Similar to 3.0E in the day, after a few years some of their later products started producing some interesting ideas.
With that said, the 3.5E metamagic rods i never really found interesting or thematically liked. Just seemed lame, and Kargin did investigate what he called meta crystals that you could embed in wands, rods, and staffs. However shortly after that @dwarf brought up the concepts of lens’s and amp’s … and we just ran with that. Kargin also flirted with psicrystals, i do believe he has some prototypes specific for melee types, and some specific for caster types. There was a lot of interest but it typically fades fairly quickly because in order for them to work they need to be implanted into their spine or at the base of their skulls to hide the crystal, while others implant the crystal shard in their forehead, forming a mythical “third eye.” Some warriors tend to have them implanted into the hand or chest, often sporting custom-made armor to show off the crystal to their enemies. To implant and integrate the crystals into the various systems of the body (i.e. nervous, immune, etc…) requires the skills of an alchemist… and that is where Kargin loses them.
Back to the drawing board.
