Dwarf Edition: 10e Caster
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- peers over at the cloud’s modified 10e fighter *
yeah, he left 12th lvl at d10’s… so the fighter is whacking people for 4d10 energy spirit damage, which should wind up to an extra 8d10 - 16d10 depending on how many swings he’s gettin at that point… the balancing mechanic was that the fighter energy spirit damage per hit roughly equated to half a rogues backstab (who typically only gets ONE backstab in a round) and his total energy spirit damage was about the same a caster could generate, tho across a larger swath of opponents (as it was limited by the power pool)
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Experience Points advancement any different are follows the same feat, ability score, and exp progression for everything else in 3.5/d20?
Bonus Feats same as a 3.5 wizard?
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So um, I am looking at both lists and I am wondering, do I select my energy type (ex, Negetive energy at lvl 3) then look at the second list and decide how I want to channel that energy as an attack (ex, Blast 20r at +2). Then as long as I meet the total lvl requirement and the spell/power point cost, poof, I have a new spell/energy attack?
Please dont think I am being sarcastic or anything, trying to figure these charts out.
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correct, half-g…
onaga, in my design of the 10e caster, i envisioned the caster gaining one new ability for each level of caster - whether it be access to a new energy type or taking a different manipulation instead. so a 5th lvl 10e caster would have access to 5 energy types or 5 manipulations or any combination thereof equalling 5. at 1st level, they got a single ‘bonus’ one merely so they got one energy type and a way to use it as a new caster. most take Magic/mana as the initial energy type and Arrow so they have something to attack with from a distance
and yeah, you have to be a minimum of 3rd level to get access to negative energy… so you can take that at any level past 2, then apply a manipulation to generate whatever effect it creates. so if you take Blast 20’r as a manipulation - then creating a 20’ radius Negative Energy Blast is a 5th lvl caster effect (which would cost you 3 spell points in clouds system to generate what is basically a negative energy explosion similar to a fireball)
technically, the 10e wizard has to wait until 2nd level before being able to select Magic (power) and Missile (ranged autohit) to generate a standard magic missile effect, but that also went hand in hand with my older-than-dirt splitting of spell levels into low/high efx which made more sense in the 2e game system…
(( ive been bending D&D pretty much since day 1 - even if only by misinterpretation. remember getting like 20+ webs for each casting of the spell, halfg ? (10 year old us didn’t know what the word duration meant, so we guessed it meant quantity) or getting one spell per copy you had scribed in your spellbook ?? lol - and the auto-refresh of all spells at midnight on the dot
ahh, youth and ignorance )) -
And this class has not been reworked for my campaign like the fighter and rogue have. But it will likely be close to what is here.
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Haha, yeah we would wait until about 11-11:30pm at night holding back on our spells before a big battle, and then go in guns blazing because at the stroke of midnight (real-time) everything reset. Good times.
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Energy Types + Effects
The number of energy types + effects a caster gets equals - Caster Level + 1
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So how would I go about setting up some 10e spells for Onaga to use? Like I said, Acid and Negitive energy are my preferences.
Askin for assistance on this one cause I am still figuring out the 10e thing.
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@DarkWulf said in Dwarf Edition: 10e Caster:
Askin for assistance on this one cause I am still figuring out the 10e thing.
Showing up at CabinCon would have learned you…
But you sounded like death was knocking… So happy you stayed away.
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@DarkWulf said in Dwarf Edition: 10e Caster:
So how would I go about setting up some 10e spells for Onaga to use? Like I said, Acid and Negitive energy are my preferences.
Askin for assistance on this one cause I am still figuring out the 10e thing.
Now to answer your quesiton, we really worked on abusing this system over the weekend trying to work kinks out of it.
First, you have to stop thinking of “spells” like you are used to. It is simpler than that.
There are three parts to casting.
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Energy Types
a. These are the types of energy you will have access to.
b. Examples are Magic (1st), Elemental - Acid (3rd) , Negative (3rd), and Dark/Shadow (3rd) -
Manipulations
a. Manipulations are what you are doing with an energy type.
b. Examples are Missile (1st), Weapon (1st), Breath (2nd), and Blast - 30’ (3rd) -
Strength Level
a. Strength level is the damage die used.
b. Examples are 1d4 (0th), 1d6(1st), etc.
You create effects with a combination of the three.
Let’s say you want to toss Acid on the enemy fighter.
- Well first you need to have taken the Energy Type Elemental - Acid sometime after getting to 3rd level.
- Second you have to then choose how to use the Energy. Let’s look at Missile. You can gain Missile at 1st level.
- Put them together and you have an acid (3) missile (1) 1d4 base (0), that requires you to be level 4 (3+1+0) in order to cast it. It will cost 2 spell points to cast (you divide caster level by 2 (round up) for the spell point cost).
- Missiles hit with no attack roll but provide a save for half.
- Acid does 1d4 base (0th) damage per level. Since you have to be level 4 to even cast this, it is 4d4 damage for your acid missile.
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@dwarf Energy Strength level should adjust the caster level also.
This is not what we did this weekend, but as I looked at this more and thought about it, that is what I came up with.
1d4 is +0
if you want the d12 then you need to jack the caster level up by +5.So the Acid Missile I just detailed for 4d4 at level 4 could be an Acid Missile at 9th level and would cost 5 spell points instead of 2. but it would then be 9d12 damage.
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you can’t take missile at 1st, b’cuz its a +1 mod… so you hafta take a +0 mod at 1st lvl - otherwise (as the basic energy types start as 1) you’d have an energy you couldn’t cast at 1st lvl.
so you’d have ta take missile at 2nd lvl (where the energy type 1 plus the missile mod 1 = 2nd lvl caster) or thereafter
as far as jacking the SP cost and caster lvl, i’m open to tryin it your way…
tis playtest material, after all !! -
@dwarf said in Dwarf Edition: 10e Caster:
you can’t take missile at 1st, b’cuz its a +1 mod… so you hafta take a +0 mod at 1st lvl - otherwise (as the basic energy types start as 1) you’d have an energy you couldn’t cast at 1st lvl.
so you’d have ta take missile at 2nd lvl (where the energy type 1 plus the missile mod 1 = 2nd lvl caster) or thereafter
Point taken, but it is a +1 mod so it should be available at level 1.
Granted most casters could not use it at level 1 as there is no level 0 energy type in the list.
I was also thinking about adding force at level 0 on a 1d3 or 1d2+1.
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So with the introduction of the 10E spell system, comes the question of Creating Magic Items -
For Wands, the formula is as follows:
Base Price = 750 × level of spell × level of caster (or otherwise market price)
Craft Cost = 375 x level of spells x level of caster
XP Cost = 1/25 * Base Proce
Time to Craft = 1 day/1000 gpDoes this formula continue to hold up with 10e magic? Or are we changing the overall crafting system as well?
In 3.5 the Wand limit was 4th level spells, I know we talked about this once, but i wasn’t sure if there was an official ruling? Does the wand limit continue to hold to 4th level or lower spells only?
Lastly, has the game introduced wand/rod/staff metamagic lenses, and metamagic grips?
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@halfgiant said in Dwarf Edition: 10e Caster:
Lastly, has the game introduced wand/rod/staff metamagic lenses, and metamagic grips?
Can I have a breather between introducing major changes?
I’m already working on cubes and 10e casting.
#breaksoutthechapstick
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@halfgiant said in Dwarf Edition: 10e Caster:
Does this formula continue to hold up with 10e magic? Or are we changing the overall crafting system as well?
Pretty close. It may not be a “fireball” wand since there is no fireball. But the similar spell has an effective spell level based on the energy type, manipulation and power (damage dice).
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So speaking of fireball and 10 casting and figuring this all out… my acid missile example was a poor choice.
@dwarf and @halfgiant poke holes in this…
So let’s do it with Fireball.
3.5e fireball:
- 3rd level spell (requires 5th level caster)
- 1d6 fire damage per caster level (max 10d6)
- 20’ radius
- costs 3 spell points.
- 5d6 damage at first castable level
10e “fireball”:
- Energy Type: Elemental Fire - +1 to caster level
- Energy Manipulation: 20’ Blast - +2 to caster level
- Energy Strength: Base 1d4 per caster level - +0 to caster level
- 2nd level spell ( sum of mods divided by 2 rounded up)
- Requires 3th level caster (due to mod minimum)
- costs 2 spell points
- 3d4 damage at first castable level
But 10e offers variable Energy strengths.
Beginning at 5th level you could match the damage dice to the 3.5e fireball.- Energy Strength: Weak 1d6 per caster level - +1 to caster level
- 2nd level spell ( sum of mods divided by 2 rounded up)
- Requires 5th level caster to get access to Energy Strength Weak
- costs 2 spell points
- 5d6 damage at first castable level
Or you could continue to use the d4, but the spell point cost is the same, so why? Some spells this may not be the same depending on the Energy Type and Energy Manipulation in use.
On to 7th level! The 10e caster gains access to the next Energy Strength for Elemental - Fire.
- Energy Strength: Light 1d8 per caster level - +2 to caster level
- 3rd level spell ( sum of mods divided by 2 rounded up)
- Requires 7th level caster to get access to Energy Strength Light
- costs 3 spell points
- 7d8 damage at first castable level
But the 3.5e caster is stuck with 7d6 for the same 3 spell points
You can continue to use the d4 or the d6 for a 2 spell point cost if desired, or because spell point conservation is needed, or because you are stacking other mods (from feats) and need to keep the spell level to your current max caster level.
At 10th level the 3.5e reaches the cap of 10d6 but the 10e caster is at 10.8 for the same 3 spell point cost.
At 11th level the 10e caster gains the next Energy Type: Minor
- Energy Strength: Minor 1d10 per caster level - +3 to caster level
- 3rd level spell ( sum of mods divided by 2 rounded up)
- Requires 11th level caster to get access to Energy Strength Minor
- costs 3 spell points
- 11d10 damage at first castable level
But the 3.5e caster is stuck with 10d6 for the same 3 spell points
At 18th level the 10e caster gains the Energy Type: Average
- Energy Strength: Average 1d12 per caster level - +5 to caster level
- 4th level spell ( sum of mods divided by 2 rounded up)
- Requires 18th level caster to get access to Energy Strength Average
- costs 4 spell points
- 18d12 damage at first castable level
But the 3.5e caster is stuck with 10d6 for the only 1 spell point less
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@dwarf check out this damage dice progession chart from Pathfinder.
Maybe a way to flush out the Energy Strength Level chart.
Source: https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9t3f
When the damage dealt by a creature’s weapons or natural attacks changes due to a change in its size (or the size of its weapon), use the following rules to determine the new damage.
• If the size increases by one step, look up the original damage on the chart and increase the damage by two steps. If the initial size is Small or lower (or is treated as Small or lower) or the initial damage is 1d6 or less, instead increase the damage by one step.
• If the size decreases by one step, look up the original damage on the chart and decrease the damage by two steps. If the initial size is Medium or lower (or is treated as Medium or lower) or the initial damage is 1d8 or less, instead decrease the damage by one step.
• If the exact number of original dice is not found on this chart, apply the following before adjusting the damage dice. If the damage is a number of d6, find the next lowest number of d6 on the chart and use that number of d8 as the original damage value (for example, 10d6 would instead be treated as 8d8). If the damage is a number of d8, find the next highest number of d8 on the chart and use that number of d6 as the original damage value (for example, 5d8 would instead be treated as 6d6). Once you have the new damage value, adjust by the number of steps noted above.
• If the die type is not referenced on this chart, apply the following rules before adjusting the damage dice. 2d4 counts as 1d8 on the chart, 3d4 counts as 2d6 on the chart, and so on for higher numbers of d4. 1d12 counts as 2d6 on the chart, and so on for higher numbers of d12.
• Finally, 2d10 increases to 4d8 and decreases to 2d8, regardless of the initial size, and so on for higher numbers of d10.
Damage Dice Progression Chart
1
1d2
1d3
1d4
1d6
1d8
1d10
2d6
2d8
3d6
3d8
4d6
4d8
6d6
6d8
8d6
8d8
12d6
12d8
16d6I merged it into the 10e sheet data, simply starting at 1d4. Trimmed the 1, 1d2, and 1d3 from the top to make it line up. The 16d6 would be 16 if you come up with one
Level Adjustment Name Dwarf Damage Die Revised Damage Die -1 Cantrip 1d3 0 Base 1d4 1d4 1 Weak 1d6 1d6 2 Light 1d8 1d8 3 Minor 1d10 1d10 4 Substnd 2d6 5 Average 1d12 2d8 6 Overchrgd 3d6 7 Glowing 3d8 8 Major 4d6 9 Strong 4d8 10 Severe 6d6 11 Radiant 6d8 12 Strobing 8d6 13 Blinding 8d8 14 Molten 12d6 15 Plasmic 12d8 -
Now seeing that line up and looking at Cantrips. Because I know how much @halfgiant LOVES to play level 1.
Let’s add another Energy Strength of Cantrip with a -1 level mod and a die of 1d3 (or 1d2).
This would apply to all Energy types that have a Base (1d4) capable casting.
So the level 1 types can be cast at level 0 effective mod. This gives you magic missile at first level for 1d3 for 1 spell point. Or you can have a 1d3 magic arrow that you have to roll to hit for free (at will).Edit: added to above table.
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@dwarf said in Dwarf Edition: 10e Caster:
- peers over at the cloud’s modified 10e fighter *
yeah, he left 12th lvl at d10’s… so the fighter is whacking people for 4d10 energy spirit damage, which should wind up to an extra 8d10 - 16d10 depending on how many swings he’s gettin at that point… the balancing mechanic was that the fighter energy spirit damage per hit roughly equated to half a rogues backstab (who typically only gets ONE backstab in a round) and his total energy spirit damage was about the same a caster could generate, tho across a larger swath of opponents (as it was limited by the power pool)
I have no idea how to apply these new damages ideas to the 10 Fighter and Theif damage yet… still thinking…
