Game Mechanic: Epic


  • PC

    So throwing this out there for discussion, maybe there has been resolution not sure but I will ask anyway.

    We have in the past treated Sazerac’s ascension to becoming a PowerMaster, as a prestige class (which occurred pre-epic). For Kargin, we seem to be aligning his ascension to Ancient (also as a prestige class) with becoming Epic or maybe thats just the way its working out and doesn’t have to be?

    So do the Ancient and PowerMaster Prestige Classes (going forward) have epic level prerequisites to achieve? Meaning in the 3.5 definition level 21 and above.

    Or does the 10e/Manaverse have a different definition of what constitutes Epic?


  • DM

    Sazerac’s powermastery occured pre-epc sort of.

    Yeah it is a mix up since I kind threw out class level, but also still had to limp along a few things similar to class levels.


  • PC

    since Saz was basically a direct 2e > 3.5e patch, we left the requirements at 18/18/18 like they were for Daren so very long long ago 😉 in hindsight, we probably would’ve bumped it to an Epic Prestige Class if we’d thought about it long enough, or had the foresight to know that the 4th abortion and 5th weenie would be so vastly underpowered.

    as far as epic level prerequisites, you already know them for 3.5/d20. triple-classed cleric/mage/psion for powermasters and an artifact to disassemble and rebuild for ancients. and, obviously, epic status of level 20 or above.

    moving into the 10th edition, all of the “rules” are pretty up in the air at this point. i SUSPECT that i’ll be pushing it out to level 26, making levels 1-25 for “typical” (or according to daren, low level) gameplay. zap’s initial reaction is that when characters break past 25, there’s a sort of Personal Regenesis that occurs - much like how a caterpillar becomes a butterfly, and goes from crawling slowly along to magnificent flight 😆 an evolutionary leap forward

    the details of what occurs is still gestating/crystallizing in the big ole’ braincell - but i suspect it’ll involve actually repatterning your character completely… so that when you emerge from your cocoon, you’ll be all but unrecognizable, with a completely different biosignature that even Dregnoth won’t recognize at first ;p

    “Go away, strange little man - i’m not Kargin !”
    “You drink beer like Kargin, and you’re the only Ancient that came out the other side !”
    “Don’t you worry about that ! I’m still not Kargin ! Hey, isn’t that Demogorgon ?” runs away before Jedi Mind Trick wears off


  • PC

    Powermasters old template had to meet the 18/18/18 pre-requisite, now move to the 10E caster system…is that 10E caster (3x times) but with energy types mana, psionic, and divine? And now that moves to 25/25/25? While i don’t really disagree with the Tier system, 25/25/25 is a long road to travel to become a powermaster.

    Ancients to be treated as a Epic Prestige Class (at least for now).


  • PC

    no, since the 10e system doesn’t differentiate classes based on their energy type, i’m GUESSING that it’ll be more along the lines of Powermastery becoming available at level 26 and beyond… as well as requiring that you have mastery of a minimum of the 4 basic elemental energies as well as Holy/Mana/Psionic. hell, i might even throw in a few more just to keep the wannabees out 😉

    and its SUPPOSED to be a long, long road to travel to achieve Powermastery. or are you forgetting how many YEARS it took Daren or Sorvani to achieve such an accomplishment ?


  • PC

    Having slept on this a little more, since we are balancing the introduction of 10E concepts, stuff from the Dwarfverse, new stuff from the Manaverse, and maintaining structural elements of 3.5/d20 (shedding the stuff that doesn’t make sense). I get what Zap is saying, but wouldn’t it make more sense to structurally leave the following in place. And re-engineer Ancients and PowerMasters to be 31+ as a prerequisite.

    1-20 pre-epic
    21-30 Epic (training wheels come off so to speak)
    31+ Ancients, PowerMasters, and future nastiness

    Powermasters abandoning the 18/18/18 multi-class thing, maybe no powerconverter but something else, based upon the 10e caster. If the player wants to do the more traditional path (3.5 cleric/wizard/psion), they can continue with 18/18/18.

    Still makes it a long road to travel, but admittedly the hybrid rule system we are currently playing in does seem to have steady/consistent progression, versus the days of 1E/2E which took a good long time to level.


  • PC

    Epic Magic Items
    [Kargin Reference]

    While not truly an artifact, the epic magic item is a creation of such power that it surpasses other magic items. Epic magic items are objects of great power and value. The following are typical characteristics of an epic magic item. In general, an item with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item.

    • Grants a bonus on attacks or damage greater than +5.
    • Grants an enhancement bonus to armor higher than +5.
    • Has a special ability with a market price modifier greater than +5.
    • Grants an armor bonus of greater than +10 (not including magic armor’s enhancement bonus).
    • Grants a natural armor, deflection, or resistance bonus greater than +5.
    • Grants an enhancement bonus to an ability score greater than +6.
    • Grants an enhancement bonus on a skill check greater than +30.
    • Mimics a spell of an effective level higher than 9th.
    • Has a caster level above 20th.
    • Has a market price above 200,000 gp, not including material costs for armor or weapons, material component- or experience point-based costs, or additional value for intelligent items.
    • An epic magic item that grants a bonus beyond those allowed for normal magic items has a higher market price than indicated by the formulas for non-epic items.

    Epic magic items are not artifacts. They are not unique, though they are certainly very rare, and anyone with the proper item creation feats can build them. Even an epic magic item can never grant a dodge bonus, and the maximum inherent bonus that can be applied to an ability score is +5. An epic magic item cannot be created that uses or mimics an epic spell. A major artifact might be able to mimic such a spell, however.

    Creating Epic Magic Items
    The process of creating an epic magic item is very similar to creating a nonepic magic item. However, certain important differences exist.

    Caster Level
    Spells with an effective level of 10th or higher are possible at epic levels. Because these spell slots aren’t automatically gained at a particular level like 0- to 9th-level spells are, they don’t have a minimum caster level. For this reason, the minimum caster level for any spell of 10th level or higher is set at 11 + spell level.

    Prerequisites
    In addition to the materials and tools required for nonepic magic items, any epic magic item requires at least two item creation feats: the epic and nonepic version.

    Market Price
    Use the guidelines for nonepic magic items to determine the market price of an epic magic item, with one addition: If the item gives a bonus beyond the limit allowed in for normal, nonepic magic items, multiply the portion of the market price derived from that characteristic by 10. Some epic characteristics, such as caster level, don’t trigger this multiplier.

    Experience Point Cost
    The experience point cost to create an epic magic item is determined differently than for a normal magic item. For all epic magic items other than scrolls, divide the market price by 100, then add 10,000 XP to the result. The final number is the experience point cost to create the item.

    For epic scrolls, divide the market price by 25 (as normal for creating a nonepic scroll), then add 1,000 XP to the result. The final number is the experience point cost to create the epic scroll.

    Magic Item Descriptions
    In the following sections, each general type of magic item, such as armor or scrolls, has an overall description, followed by descriptions of specific items, if any. Each magic item description and table follows the same format used for nonepic magic items. Specific exceptions are noted as necessary.

    [Reference: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/basics.htm]


  • DM

    @halfgiant said in Game Mechanic: Epic:

    Having slept on this a little more, since we are balancing the introduction of 10E concepts, stuff from the Dwarfverse, new stuff from the Manaverse, and maintaining structural elements of 3.5/d20 (shedding the stuff that doesn’t make sense). I get what Zap is saying, but wouldn’t it make more sense to structurally leave the following in place. And re-engineer Ancients and PowerMasters to be 31+ as a prerequisite.

    1-20 pre-epic
    21-30 Epic (training wheels come off so to speak)
    31+ Ancients, PowerMasters, and future nastiness

    Powermasters abandoning the 18/18/18 multi-class thing, maybe no powerconverter but something else, based upon the 10e caster. If the player wants to do the more traditional path (3.5 cleric/wizard/psion), they can continue with 18/18/18.

    Still makes it a long road to travel, but admittedly the hybrid rule system we are currently playing in does seem to have steady/consistent progression, versus the days of 1E/2E which took a good long time to level.

    This is an interesting concept that I am going to ponder more.


  • PC

    We could do something similar to Darksun 2E with the Ancients and Powermasters as well, Dragons (defilers) and Avangions (preservers) go thru a 10 level transformation process (levels 21-30). We could follow something similar, on the precipice of entering Epic the Ancient or Powermaster undergo their respective trials assuming they pass they begin the 10 level process of transformation to fully realize their final potential leading up to 31+. Along the way they build up fragments of their classes power, until they become level 31 were they become Full Grown Ancient or Powermaster.

    Just something to ponder.


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