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    • dwarfD
      dwarf PC
      last edited by dwarf

      perfect !! 🙂

      now, how do we want to differentiate when a 10th lvl caster makes a 3rd lvl cube for his wand 'o fireballs ? so he can honk off 10d6 blasts instead of 5d6 ones ?
      add a descriptor (minor) ? let the wand just convert a pink cube on the fly ? make a bridging device to hook a pink to the yellow ?

      i’m of a mind (at this moment) to just let the wand hold the ‘formula’ and channel whatever cube you load it with into fireballs of whatever strength… load an orange cube, get a 1d6 fireball. load a rust, get a 20d6 and hope the wand doesn’t making the high-pitched phaser overload noise. slot in a blood red and run like hell because it WILL make the overload noise 😜

      thoughts ?

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      • daermadmD
        daermadm DM @dwarf
        last edited by daermadm

        @dwarf said in Cubes:

        perfect !! 🙂

        now, how do we want to differentiate when a 10th lvl caster makes a 3rd lvl cube for his wand 'o fireballs ? so he can honk off 10d6 blasts instead of 5d6 ones ?
        add a descriptor (minor) ? let the wand just convert a pink cube on the fly ? make a bridging device to hook a pink to the yellow ?

        i’m of a mind (at this moment) to just let the wand hold the ‘formula’ and channel whatever cube you load it with into fireballs of whatever strength… load an orange cube, get a 1d6 fireball. load a rust, get a 20d6 and hope the wand doesn’t making the high-pitched phaser overload noise. slot in a blood red and run like hell because it WILL make the overload noise 😜

        thoughts ?

        I was thinking about a “max” level for wands when made. A standard wand is made at caster level and uses the appropriate cube.

        In the case of a fireball wand that would be yellow and each charge is 5d6.

        Now when Kargin makes his fireball wand of doom he jacks his caster level up to 9 (5th level spell) for creation that is a 9d6 fireball per charge with a pink cube.

        With the max level logic, he could use a yellow cube for a 5d6 fireball or a blue cube for a 7d6.

        I see no reason not to let it get weaker. 3d6 on brown and 1d6 on orange.

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        • dwarfD
          dwarf PC
          last edited by

          wouldn’t the fireball wand o’ doom be a 9d8 then ?

          daermadmD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • daermadmD
            daermadm DM @dwarf
            last edited by

            @dwarf said in Cubes:

            wouldn’t the fireball wand o’ doom be a 9d8 then ?

            Well that would add to the caster level to up to the d8.

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            • halfgiantH
              halfgiant PC
              last edited by halfgiant

              Double checking, I’m tracking…to make sure.

              Example (Wand) 1
              Energy Type Elemental Fire +1
              Effect Blast 20’ radius +2
              Adj Major 4d8 +8 4d8
              Caster Level 11 4d8 44d8
              Spell Level 6
              Power Source Violet Cubes Cost Base Spell Level Caster Level Charges
              1 Empty Cube 4950 75 6 11 -
              Cost to Fill 6600 10 6 11 10
              Wand Cost Base Spell Level Caster Level
              Base Price 49500 750 6 11
              Craft Cost 24750 Gold
              XP Cost 1980 XP
              Time to Craft 24.75 Days
              Example (Wand) 2
              Energy Type Explosive +7
              Effect Blast 20’ radius +2
              Adj Average 2d8 +5
              Caster Level 14 2d8 28d8
              Spell Level 7
              Power Source Maroon Cubes Cost Base Spell Level Caster Level Charges
              1 Empty Cube 7350 75 7 14 -
              Cost to Fill 9800 10 7 14 10
              Wand Cost Base Spell Level Caster Level
              Base Price 73500 750 7 14
              Craft Cost 36750 Gold
              XP Cost 2940 XP
              Time to Craft 36.75 Days
              Notes
              Base Price = 750 × level of spell × level of caster (or otherwise market price)
              Craft Cost = 375 x level of spells x level of caster
              XP Cost = 1/25 * Base Proce
              Time to Craft = 1 day/1000 gp
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              • daermadmD
                daermadm DM @halfgiant
                last edited by daermadm

                @halfgiant said in Cubes:

                Double checking, I’m tracking…to make sure.

                oh, we know you are tracking…

                I’ll have to review it in the morning. this looks horrid on my phone.

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                • daermadmD
                  daermadm DM @halfgiant
                  last edited by

                  @halfgiant Creation cost for an empty cube is 75gp. That was derived form the fact that wands are created with 50 charges and 375gp / 5 = 75.

                  I have not yet decided what to do about charged item creation and cubes. Originally, in the old 2e system, when you made a wand you got 5 full cubes also. But cubes are more effective than disposable wands.

                  The other values in the Creation Cost column were listed as part of the discussion on if cubes themselves were leveled. We have settled that they are not.

                  But I see my math was wrong because I wrote that base don @dwarf’s post that wands were Caster Level x Spell Level x 375 gp, but I just checked the PH and it shows they are 750. So let me rework things.

                  b09f1320-9d8b-4fb6-90f4-09acfc2bbf07-image.png

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                  • daermadmD
                    daermadm DM
                    last edited by

                    And the DMG has the 375 number… WTF WOTC…
                    e3010029-4c8a-4d28-9456-629b560a9176-image.png

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                    • daermadmD
                      daermadm DM
                      last edited by daermadm

                      Alright, so that 750 is market price. Thanks WOTC for not using clear terms all over…

                      So the original table stands as it was. But let’s think about the entire picture. Crafting a wand and cubes.

                      Wand Options:

                      • Craft a wand and get 5 fully charged cubes.
                        • This option needs to jack the cost of creation by some factor thanks to the rechargability of cubes.
                      • Craft a wand and get 2 fully charged cubes.
                        • I can easily seeing this as being an even deal. You only get 20 charges, but with a simple spell and some time, any caster can refill the cubes…
                      • Craft a wand and get no cubes.
                        • This would definitely lower the cost of the wand creation I am leaning towards 50%

                      I think the second two options go together. Giving the crafter a choice during creation.

                      If we go with those, then I would say wand creation cost would be thus.

                      Spell Level Caster Level Wand +2 Cube Retail Cost Wand + 0 Cube Retail Cost Uses Cube Color Wand Retail Base Cost Wand + 2 Cube Creation Cost Wand +0 Cube Creation Cost
                      1 1 750 375 Orange 750 375 187.50
                      2 3 4,500 2,250 Brown 750 2,250 1,125.00
                      3 5 11,250 5,625 Yellow 750 5,625 2,812.50
                      4 7 21,000 10,500 Blue 750 10,500 5,250.00
                      5 9 33,750 16,875 Pink 750 16,875 8,437.50
                      6 11 49,500 24,750 Violet 750 24,750 12,375.00
                      7 13 68,250 34,125 Maroon 750 34,125 17,062.50
                      8 15 90,000 45,000 Green 750 45,000 22,500.00
                      9 17 114,750 57,375 Beige 750 57,375 28,687.50
                      10 19 142,500 71,250 Steel 750 71,250 35,625.00
                      11 21 173,250 86,625 Rust 750 86,625 43,312.50
                      12 23 207,000 103,500 Turquoise 750 103,500 51,750.00
                      13 25 243,750 121,875 Gold 750 121,875 60,937.50
                      14 27 283,500 141,750 Bronze 750 141,750 70,875.00
                      15 29 326,250 163,125 Silver 750 163,125 81,562.50
                      16 31 372,000 186,000 Brass 750 186,000 93,000.00
                      17 33 420,750 210,375 Copper 750 210,375 105,187.50
                      18 35 472,500 236,250 Platinum 750 236,250 118,125.00
                      19 37 527,250 263,625 White 750 263,625 131,812.50
                      20 39 585,000 292,500 Blood Red 750 292,500 146,250.00

                      And then Cube Creation and Recharging would be thus.
                      Note: I think we should just roll Empty Cube Base to 100gp

                      Spell Level Caster Level Cube Color Empty Cube Base Creation Cost Retail NPC Cost Per Charge Retail NPC Cost Full Cube Retail Recharge Cost Spell Points per Charge
                      1 1 Orange 93.75 10 100 380 1
                      2 3 Brown 93.75 60 1,030 1,310 2
                      3 5 Yellow 93.75 150 1,930 2,210 3
                      4 7 Blue 93.75 280 3,230 3,510 4
                      5 9 Pink 93.75 450 4,930 5,210 5
                      6 11 Violet 93.75 660 7,030 7,310 6
                      7 13 Maroon 93.75 910 9,530 9,810 7
                      8 15 Green 93.75 1,200 12,430 12,710 8
                      9 17 Beige 93.75 1,530 15,730 16,010 9
                      10 19 Steel 93.75 1,900 19,430 19,710 10
                      11 21 Rust 93.75 2,310 23,530 23,810 11
                      12 23 Turquoise 93.75 2,760 28,030 28,310 12
                      13 25 Gold 93.75 3,250 32,930 33,210 13
                      14 27 Bronze 93.75 3,780 38,230 38,510 14
                      15 29 Silver 93.75 4,350 43,930 44,210 15
                      16 31 Brass 93.75 4,960 50,030 50,310 16
                      17 33 Copper 93.75 5,610 56,530 56,810 17
                      18 35 Platinum 93.75 6,300 63,430 63,710 18
                      19 37 White 93.75 7,030 70,730 71,010 19
                      20 39 Blood Red 93.75 7,800 78,430 78,710 20
                      Column Heading Definition of Formula
                      Wand + 2 Cube Retail Cost Spell Level * Caster Level * Retail Base Cost
                      Wand + 0 Cube Retail Cost Spell Level * Caster Level * Retail Base Cost / 2
                      Retail NPC Cost Per Charge Spell Level * Caster Level * 10
                      Retail NPC Cost Full Cube Spell Level * Caster Level * 10 * 10
                      Spell Points per Charge 1 Spell Point per Spell Level
                      Empty Cube Base Creation Cost Wand + 2 Cube Creation Cost / 2 ( half for wand half for two cubes ) / 2 ( two cubes )
                      Retail Recharge Cost Retail NPC Cost Full Cube + NPC Cast Dweomerflow (280gp)
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                      • halfgiantH
                        halfgiant PC
                        last edited by

                        Yeah its confusing, and I might add created a new term Retail! It use to be Market or Base Price.

                        Retail for a Wand + 2
                        Retail (or Market, or Base Price) = 750 × level of spell × level of caster

                        Craft a Wand + 2
                        Craft Cost = 375 × level of spell × level of caster

                        Alternatively you can also say- Craft a Wand + 2
                        Craft Cost = Base Price / 2

                        Now i assume if i understand your table correctly we have Wand + 0 as being -

                        Wand+0: Retail (or Market, or Base Price) = 375 × level of spell × level of caster

                        Wand+0: Craft Cost = Base Price / 2.

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                        • halfgiantH
                          halfgiant PC
                          last edited by

                          Now lets throw a curve ball…and talk Staffs.

                          Creating Staffs
                          To create a magic staff, a character needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a staff or the pieces of the staff to be assembled.

                          The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the staff—

                          375 gp × the level of the highest-level spell × the level of the caster, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (281.25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster), plus one-half of the value of any other abilities (187.5 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster).

                          Staffs are always fully charged (50 charges) when created.

                          If desired, a spell can be placed into the staff at only half the normal cost, but then activating that particular spell costs 2 charges from the staff. The caster level of all spells in a staff must be the same, and no staff can have a caster level of less than 8th, even if all the spells in the staff are low-level spells.

                          The creator must have prepared the spells to be stored (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any focus the spells require as well as material and XP component costs sufficient to activate the spell a maximum number of times (50 divided by the number of charges one use of the spell expends). This is in addition to the XP cost for making the staff itself. Material components are consumed when he begins working, but focuses are not. (A focus used in creating a staff can be reused.) The act of working on the staff triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the staff’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)

                          Crafting a staff requires one day for each 1,000 gp of the base price.

                          What cubes do we use for that? I assume the color of the highest level spell against the caster level which i assume would be uniform across all the spells in the staff? Not sure i can make that assumption, need to do a bit of research.

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                          • daermadmD
                            daermadm DM @halfgiant
                            last edited by daermadm

                            @halfgiant said in Cubes:

                            What cubes do we use for that? I assume the color of the highest level spell against the caster level which i assume would be uniform across all the spells in the staff? Not sure i can make that assumption, need to do a bit of research.

                            This is where the variable cubes come in. Let me pull out an old 2e character sheet

                            @daermadm said in Cubes:

                            Spell Level Color
                            Low (1-3) Black & White
                            Medium (4-6) Red & White
                            High (7-9) Black & Red
                            Good (10-12) Black & Gold
                            Excellent (13-15) Red & Gold
                            Exceptional (16-18) Gold & White
                            Planar (19-20) Gold & Platinum
                            Variable - Low (1-9) Chromatic
                            Variable - High (10-18) Iridescent Chromatic
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                            • daermadmD
                              daermadm DM
                              last edited by daermadm

                              @dwarf’s original plan had the following cubes. I Cannot find examples where - are. but noted the spots existed.

                              Class Lesser Medium Greater
                              Mage Dark Grey Glowing Purple -
                              Cleric - - -

                              The Staff of Power used a Lesser and Medium Mage cube.
                              The Staff of Curing used an Amber Cleric cube, but I don’t know if that was Lesser or Medium.

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                              • daermadmD
                                daermadm DM
                                last edited by

                                F153449F-5D73-44E5-86C6-AFD75EB54974.jpeg

                                130A2EA3-613C-445D-BCB9-2099ACA17827.jpeg

                                D16113C5-1DB8-485A-BFDB-B9CA9B7709B5.jpeg

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                                • daermadmD
                                  daermadm DM
                                  last edited by daermadm

                                  Looking at those old sheets, even some wands used the lesser/medium cubes it seems based on their multiple effects…

                                  Wand of Frost used Glowing Purple, I assume because of the multiple effects from different levels.

                                  • Ice Storm - 4th level - 1 charge
                                  • Wall of Ice - 4th level - 1 charge
                                  • Cone of Cold - 5th level - 2 charges

                                  Wand of Fire uses a Dark Grey cube. I assume some fudge factor here to let this wand use a 4th level spell with a lesser cube because wand s only use one type of cube.

                                  • Burning Hands - 1st level - 1 charge
                                  • Pyrotechnics - 2nd level - 1 charge
                                  • Fireball - 3rd level - 2 charges
                                  • Wall of Fire - 4th level - 2 charges

                                  So a Staff that only has effects from a specific spell level would use a leveled cube. Potentially, if it only has two effects, it would only use leveled cubes because they would be in different slots…

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                                  • daermadmD
                                    daermadm DM @halfgiant
                                    last edited by daermadm

                                    @halfgiant said in Cubes:

                                    Yeah its confusing, and I might add created a new term Retail! It use to be Market or Base Price.

                                    Well part of that was my unclear understanding that Base was the Market price.

                                    I prefer the word retail simply because fuck that entire idea that magic is rare and not something that is retail in a shop…

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                                    • dwarfD
                                      dwarf PC
                                      last edited by

                                      apparently we need a color for lvl 0 cubes too 😞
                                      i mean what kind o’ dipshit makes a cantrip wand anyway ? almost embarassed to even type that…

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                                      • dwarfD
                                        dwarf PC
                                        last edited by

                                        s’been 3 months… no response - calling it Indigo !!!
                                        😜 (( twas the only ROYGBIV color cloud hadn’t assigned yet ))

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                                        • daermadmD
                                          daermadm DM @dwarf
                                          last edited by

                                          @dwarf said in Cubes:

                                          s’been 3 months… no response - calling it Indigo !!!
                                          😜 (( twas the only ROYGBIV color cloud hadn’t assigned yet ))

                                          And done.

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                                          • halfgiantH
                                            halfgiant PC
                                            last edited by

                                            I realize for completeness there needs to be a cube for cantrips, but for some reason the very notion of that just feels ridiculous.

                                            Indigo is fine.

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