Unsolved Combat Actions format
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@halfgiant said in Combat Actions format:
Things have grown nastier since this thread was started in 2017.
Yes. Yes, they have.
So @dwarf and I also discussed this a bit on Sunday.
Ohm gems will have to be an exception to the rules if we continue to allow them to be played as they have been. Possibly leave them not cubed, but I don’t like that idea.
Let me post our actions as they have been played the last couple years. and then we can go from there.
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This is our source: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm
10E Clarifications:
- We threw out Full Round actions, barring DM prerogative based on the situation.
- Everyone has one:
- Attack Action
- This is generally mapped as anything that happened in what the SRD calls a Standard Action. Except all of your attacks happen in this action.
- This action cannot be split. In other words, you cannot Attack 2 times, move 30’ and attack 2 more. The most you get is a single 5’ step.
- Move Action
- You can split your move action to be before, after, or both before and after your attack in any way you want.
- You cannot re-position and charge on the same move action if the repositioning takes more than 20% of your standard movement.
- Swift Action
- Can only be used during your turn
- A quickened spell will use your Swift Action
- Immediate Action
- Same length of time as a Swift Action, but can be taken not on your turn. An example is an attack of opportunity.
- Cannot be taken during the same part of your turn that a Swift Action was used.
- Attack Action
- Some Class Features or Feats grant a Bonus Action.
- You can only ever have a single Bonus Action in one round, even if you have multiple sources of Bonus Actions.
- Each of those actions allow one Free Action, including the Bonus Action.
Repositioning Distance Table:
Base Movement Reposition Allowance 20 4 30 6 40 8 50 10 60 12 70 14 80 16 90 18 100 20 -
D daermadm marked this topic as a question on
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@daermadm said in Combat Actions format:
Some Class Features or Feats grant a Bonus Action.
You can only ever have a single Bonus Action in one round, even if you have multiple sources of Bonus Actions.
Each of those actions allow one Free Action, including the Bonus Action.
Not sure I’m understand what this is saying
Free actions are in 3.5
(1) Drop an item, (1) Drop to the floor, (3) Dropping a spell, and (4) SpeakTypically there isn’t a limit on performing one or more free actions while say taking another action. The limiting factor is what constitutes a free action. And sure there are reasonable limits on the actual free actions identified. Dropping a weapon and saying incoming monsters i don’t think is unreasonable…technically that’s two free actions.
Bonus Actions - Is this to accommodate mechanics like Cleave and Greater Cleave? Little unsure what this is.
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@daermadm said in Combat Actions format:
Repositioning Disatance Table:
Repositioning - what are we trying to do here? not sure i know what this is.
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@daermadm said in Combat Actions format:
Attack Action
This is generally mapped as anything that happened in what the SRD calls a Standard Action. Except all of your attacks happen in this action.
This action cannot be split. In other words, you cannot Attack 2 times, move 30’ and attack 2 more. The most you get is a single 5’ step.This would also include (unarmed, ranged, or melee) attack actions, activating a magic item, or casting a spell. Using a skill is a bit of a hard call, knowledge checks probably aren’t but skill check involving a climb action may… really depends.
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@halfgiant said in Combat Actions format:
@daermadm said in Combat Actions format:
Repositioning Distance Table:
Repositioning - what are we trying to do here? not sure i know what this is.
I clearly stated it in the description of Move Action. Did you read everything or just look at the table?
It is exactly what Rorek did multiple times on Saturday when dealing with the Gargantuan sized elementals.
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@halfgiant said in Combat Actions format:
Bonus Actions - Is this to accommodate mechanics like Cleave and Greater Cleave? Little unsure what this is.
No, there are literally actions labeled Bonus Actions in some abilities and feats.
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@halfgiant said in Combat Actions format:
Typically there isn’t a limit on performing one or more free actions while say taking another action.
There are, you even said as much in the next two sentences.
@halfgiant said in Combat Actions format:
The limiting factor is what constitutes a free action. And sure there are reasonable limits on the actual free actions identified.
For each Core action ( 4 of them, 5 if you happen to have a bonus action ) you have the ability to handle a single free action.
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@daermadm said in Combat Actions format:
I clearly stated it in the description of Move Action. Did you read everything or just look at the table?
It is exactly what Rorek did multiple times on Saturday when dealing with the Gargantuan sized elementalsAhh, i read the post, just missed the move action bullet. Got it.
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@daermadm said in Combat Actions format:
No, there are literally actions labeled Bonus Actions in some abilities and feats.
Hmm, is this a 5e hold over? In 5e a bonus action was just a swift action in 3.5 but by another name. Still cool if you want to implement them, just don’t recall 3.5/d20 bonus actions.
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@daermadm said in Combat Actions format:
You cannot re-position and charge on the same move action if the repositioning takes more than 20% of your standard movement.
Makes sense.
- You can move into position (straight line) and charge
- If your already (havn’t moved) in melee combat, and you kill something you, then reposition and charge (i would assume possible - assuming you still have remaining attack actions to spend)
- I assume you can’t charge twice within the same initiative round, rare this would even happen…but i would probably try it
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@halfgiant said in Combat Actions format:
If your already (havn’t moved) in melee combat, and you kill something you, then reposition and charge (i would assume possible - assuming you still have remaining attack actions to spend)
No, because your attack action cannot be broken up. Only the move action can do that. See above.
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@halfgiant said in Combat Actions format:
@daermadm said in Combat Actions format:
No, there are literally actions labeled Bonus Actions in some abilities and feats.
Hmm, is this a 5e hold over? In 5e a bonus action was just a swift action in 3.5 but by another name. Still cool if you want to implement them, just don’t recall 3.5/d20 bonus actions.
It may well be a hold over from a different core ruleset than what I am basing things on, but I distinctly recall hearing you state that when Kargin does X, he gets a bonus action. And I do mean action. I realize some combat events give Rorek a bonus attack that is simply added in to his normal attack count during his attack action.
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Well we may have to play it for a while to see how it flushes out I think Big Ohms as we know them now makes since inside a characters initiative but as a immediate action, when a character is getting their ass stomped, I think your right it may have to operate as a exception. It’s not entirely unprecedented in 3.5 cleave and great cleave have their own exceptions.
Another form of immediate action is attacks of opportunity, technically it’s done out of a characters initiative. That may have to be its own thing, or specific form of immediate action, since it’s condition triggered.
Ahh ok Rorek is what I thought you were referring to, and yes bonus actions was a hold over from 5e. When he crits or kills he gets a bonus action (in this case attack). Sort of a triggered action (similar to cleave and great cleave) based upon a condition while in your initiative versus a attack of opportunity which is a triggered condition outside of a characters initiative.
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@halfgiant said in Combat Actions format:
and yes bonus actions was a hold over from 5e.
Then I will have to re-review it and likely will toss it out.
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@halfgiant said in Combat Actions format:
Another form of immediate action is attacks of opportunity, technically it’s done out of a characters initiative. That may have to be its own thing, or specific form of immediate action, since it’s condition triggered.
That is it’s own specific thing.
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@halfgiant said in Combat Actions format:
Big Ohms as we know them now makes since
I do not think they do. They are basically something we never actually quantified.
This is the adventure’s choice of risk mitigation. Do I buy a Big Ohm, Regenerable, Twinned, or bigger for that oh fuck ouch moment.
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Okay, the next part of clarifying actions is what can you give up for what.
I order the actions as such. You cannot exchange up, but you can exchange down.
- Attack Action
- Move Action
- Swift Action / Immediate Action
- Free Action
If you have these 4 types, what can you exchange them for.
The obvious is that you may exchange your attack action for a move action. That stick with core and really goes without saying.
Now on to what I am considering:
You can exchange a Move Action for one or two Swift Actions
You can exchange a Swift Action for one or two Free Actions.I say one or two, because I need time to really figure out what happens in a given action type. AKA how you will fuck me.
But that said, if we assume 2 for each of those, an attack action can turn into 4 Free Actions
Attack Action > Move Action > 2 Swift Actions > 4 Free Actions
Move Action > 2 Swift Actions > 4 Free Actions
Swift Action > 2 Free Actions
Immediate Action > 2 Free ActionsNow if I also think about the above proposed 1 Free Action for each core action, this could be +1 Free Action.
Attack Action + Free Action = 5 Free Action
Move Action + Free Action = 5 Free Action
Swift Action + Free Action = 3 Free Action
Immediate Action + Free Action = 3 Free Action -
@daermadm said in Combat Actions format:
@halfgiant said in Combat Actions format:
Big Ohms as we know them now makes since
I do not think they do. They are basically something we never actually quantified.
This is the adventure’s choice of risk mitigation. Do I buy a Big Ohm, Regenerable, Twinned, or bigger for that oh fuck ouch moment.
Make sense from my perspective we now have tapping a Big Ohm while in initiative as a swift action, not clear on how many but was noted this may be the exception for now based upon how we have been playing them. So much clearer than what we had before.
And tapping gems outside of your initiative as your going down is a immediate action. The quantity in both cases isn’t defined, but again probably an exception for now.
Still have some things to work out, but the bones are there.
