Cubes
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@halfgiant said in Cubes:
Double checking, I’m tracking…to make sure.
oh, we know you are tracking…
I’ll have to review it in the morning. this looks horrid on my phone.
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@halfgiant Creation cost for an empty cube is 75gp. That was derived form the fact that wands are created with 50 charges and 375gp / 5 = 75.
I have not yet decided what to do about charged item creation and cubes. Originally, in the old 2e system, when you made a wand you got 5 full cubes also. But cubes are more effective than disposable wands.
The other values in the Creation Cost column were listed as part of the discussion on if cubes themselves were leveled. We have settled that they are not.
But I see my math was wrong because I wrote that base don @dwarf’s post that wands were Caster Level x Spell Level x 375 gp, but I just checked the PH and it shows they are 750. So let me rework things.
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And the DMG has the 375 number… WTF WOTC…
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Alright, so that 750 is market price. Thanks WOTC for not using clear terms all over…
So the original table stands as it was. But let’s think about the entire picture. Crafting a wand and cubes.
Wand Options:
- Craft a wand and get 5 fully charged cubes.
- This option needs to jack the cost of creation by some factor thanks to the rechargability of cubes.
- Craft a wand and get 2 fully charged cubes.
- I can easily seeing this as being an even deal. You only get 20 charges, but with a simple spell and some time, any caster can refill the cubes…
- Craft a wand and get no cubes.
- This would definitely lower the cost of the wand creation I am leaning towards 50%
I think the second two options go together. Giving the crafter a choice during creation.
If we go with those, then I would say wand creation cost would be thus.
Spell Level Caster Level Wand +2 Cube Retail Cost Wand + 0 Cube Retail Cost Uses Cube Color Wand Retail Base Cost Wand + 2 Cube Creation Cost Wand +0 Cube Creation Cost 1 1 750 375 Orange 750 375 187.50 2 3 4,500 2,250 Brown 750 2,250 1,125.00 3 5 11,250 5,625 Yellow 750 5,625 2,812.50 4 7 21,000 10,500 Blue 750 10,500 5,250.00 5 9 33,750 16,875 Pink 750 16,875 8,437.50 6 11 49,500 24,750 Violet 750 24,750 12,375.00 7 13 68,250 34,125 Maroon 750 34,125 17,062.50 8 15 90,000 45,000 Green 750 45,000 22,500.00 9 17 114,750 57,375 Beige 750 57,375 28,687.50 10 19 142,500 71,250 Steel 750 71,250 35,625.00 11 21 173,250 86,625 Rust 750 86,625 43,312.50 12 23 207,000 103,500 Turquoise 750 103,500 51,750.00 13 25 243,750 121,875 Gold 750 121,875 60,937.50 14 27 283,500 141,750 Bronze 750 141,750 70,875.00 15 29 326,250 163,125 Silver 750 163,125 81,562.50 16 31 372,000 186,000 Brass 750 186,000 93,000.00 17 33 420,750 210,375 Copper 750 210,375 105,187.50 18 35 472,500 236,250 Platinum 750 236,250 118,125.00 19 37 527,250 263,625 White 750 263,625 131,812.50 20 39 585,000 292,500 Blood Red 750 292,500 146,250.00 And then Cube Creation and Recharging would be thus.
Note: I think we should just roll Empty Cube Base to 100gpSpell Level Caster Level Cube Color Empty Cube Base Creation Cost Retail NPC Cost Per Charge Retail NPC Cost Full Cube Retail Recharge Cost Spell Points per Charge 1 1 Orange 93.75 10 100 380 1 2 3 Brown 93.75 60 1,030 1,310 2 3 5 Yellow 93.75 150 1,930 2,210 3 4 7 Blue 93.75 280 3,230 3,510 4 5 9 Pink 93.75 450 4,930 5,210 5 6 11 Violet 93.75 660 7,030 7,310 6 7 13 Maroon 93.75 910 9,530 9,810 7 8 15 Green 93.75 1,200 12,430 12,710 8 9 17 Beige 93.75 1,530 15,730 16,010 9 10 19 Steel 93.75 1,900 19,430 19,710 10 11 21 Rust 93.75 2,310 23,530 23,810 11 12 23 Turquoise 93.75 2,760 28,030 28,310 12 13 25 Gold 93.75 3,250 32,930 33,210 13 14 27 Bronze 93.75 3,780 38,230 38,510 14 15 29 Silver 93.75 4,350 43,930 44,210 15 16 31 Brass 93.75 4,960 50,030 50,310 16 17 33 Copper 93.75 5,610 56,530 56,810 17 18 35 Platinum 93.75 6,300 63,430 63,710 18 19 37 White 93.75 7,030 70,730 71,010 19 20 39 Blood Red 93.75 7,800 78,430 78,710 20 Column Heading Definition of Formula Wand + 2 Cube Retail Cost Spell Level * Caster Level * Retail Base Cost Wand + 0 Cube Retail Cost Spell Level * Caster Level * Retail Base Cost / 2 Retail NPC Cost Per Charge Spell Level * Caster Level * 10 Retail NPC Cost Full Cube Spell Level * Caster Level * 10 * 10 Spell Points per Charge 1 Spell Point per Spell Level Empty Cube Base Creation Cost Wand + 2 Cube Creation Cost / 2 ( half for wand half for two cubes ) / 2 ( two cubes ) Retail Recharge Cost Retail NPC Cost Full Cube + NPC Cast Dweomerflow (280gp) - Craft a wand and get 5 fully charged cubes.
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Yeah its confusing, and I might add created a new term Retail! It use to be Market or Base Price.
Retail for a Wand + 2
Retail (or Market, or Base Price) = 750 × level of spell × level of casterCraft a Wand + 2
Craft Cost = 375 × level of spell × level of casterAlternatively you can also say- Craft a Wand + 2
Craft Cost = Base Price / 2Now i assume if i understand your table correctly we have Wand + 0 as being -
Wand+0: Retail (or Market, or Base Price) = 375 × level of spell × level of caster
Wand+0: Craft Cost = Base Price / 2.
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Now lets throw a curve ball…and talk Staffs.
Creating Staffs
To create a magic staff, a character needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a staff or the pieces of the staff to be assembled.The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the staff—
375 gp × the level of the highest-level spell × the level of the caster, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (281.25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster), plus one-half of the value of any other abilities (187.5 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster).
Staffs are always fully charged (50 charges) when created.
If desired, a spell can be placed into the staff at only half the normal cost, but then activating that particular spell costs 2 charges from the staff. The caster level of all spells in a staff must be the same, and no staff can have a caster level of less than 8th, even if all the spells in the staff are low-level spells.
The creator must have prepared the spells to be stored (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any focus the spells require as well as material and XP component costs sufficient to activate the spell a maximum number of times (50 divided by the number of charges one use of the spell expends). This is in addition to the XP cost for making the staff itself. Material components are consumed when he begins working, but focuses are not. (A focus used in creating a staff can be reused.) The act of working on the staff triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the staff’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)
Crafting a staff requires one day for each 1,000 gp of the base price.
What cubes do we use for that? I assume the color of the highest level spell against the caster level which i assume would be uniform across all the spells in the staff? Not sure i can make that assumption, need to do a bit of research.
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@halfgiant said in Cubes:
What cubes do we use for that? I assume the color of the highest level spell against the caster level which i assume would be uniform across all the spells in the staff? Not sure i can make that assumption, need to do a bit of research.
This is where the variable cubes come in. Let me pull out an old 2e character sheet
Spell Level Color Low (1-3) Black & White Medium (4-6) Red & White High (7-9) Black & Red Good (10-12) Black & Gold Excellent (13-15) Red & Gold Exceptional (16-18) Gold & White Planar (19-20) Gold & Platinum Variable - Low (1-9) Chromatic Variable - High (10-18) Iridescent Chromatic -
@dwarf’s original plan had the following cubes. I Cannot find examples where
-are. but noted the spots existed.Class Lesser Medium Greater Mage Dark Grey Glowing Purple - Cleric - - - The Staff of Power used a
LesserandMediumMage cube.
The Staff of Curing used anAmberCleric cube, but I don’t know if that wasLesserorMedium. -
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Looking at those old sheets, even some wands used the lesser/medium cubes it seems based on their multiple effects…
Wand of Frost used Glowing Purple, I assume because of the multiple effects from different levels.
- Ice Storm - 4th level - 1 charge
- Wall of Ice - 4th level - 1 charge
- Cone of Cold - 5th level - 2 charges
Wand of Fire uses a Dark Grey cube. I assume some fudge factor here to let this wand use a 4th level spell with a lesser cube because wand s only use one type of cube.
- Burning Hands - 1st level - 1 charge
- Pyrotechnics - 2nd level - 1 charge
- Fireball - 3rd level - 2 charges
- Wall of Fire - 4th level - 2 charges
So a Staff that only has effects from a specific spell level would use a leveled cube. Potentially, if it only has two effects, it would only use leveled cubes because they would be in different slots…
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@halfgiant said in Cubes:
Yeah its confusing, and I might add created a new term Retail! It use to be Market or Base Price.
Well part of that was my unclear understanding that Base was the Market price.
I prefer the word retail simply because fuck that entire idea that magic is rare and not something that is retail in a shop…
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apparently we need a color for lvl 0 cubes too
i mean what kind o’ dipshit makes a cantrip wand anyway ? almost embarassed to even type that… -
s’been 3 months… no response - calling it Indigo !!!
(( twas the only ROYGBIV color cloud hadn’t assigned yet )) -
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I realize for completeness there needs to be a cube for cantrips, but for some reason the very notion of that just feels ridiculous.
Indigo is fine.
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yeah - i think in NWN they built 'em into neverending charged rods… so my caster wound up blasting EVERYTHING with his ray of frost
took farking FOREVER to crack open a chest or kill any monster over level 2… but giving our Wand of Arcane Mark with unlimited charges to someone like Dregs would wind up with him autographing every block, building and paving stone in Vral with sigils - just to annoy Sorvani…one of these days V really needs to get the city a 2nd powerviner for dregs to play with…
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Ok we started off with Cubes for Wands, Rods, and Staffs now we are expanding out to Cubes for wondrous items, gem-based magic (i.e. big ohm), magic rings, powered affects built into weapons (i.e. 2d-blade).
Items with charges per day, command words, and use-activated can all be converted or powered by cubes so this posting is to serve as a reminder about how magic items that work with cubes outside of Rods, Wands, and Staffs.
Cube Chamber
A cube chamber is a cube-shaped physical slot or a small extra-dimensional space on a magic item such as the handle of a weapon, edge of a shield, or the back of a breastplate that can hold one or more cubes. When a magic item with a cube chamber is loaded with cubes in the chamber, it is considered ready (or armed) and the magic item can be activated.Loading the cube chamber is a free action to dump used cubes, but requires a move or swift action to update the chamber with fresh cubes.
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@halfgiant said in Cubes:
Cube Chamber
A cube chamber is a cube-shaped physical slot or a small extra-dimensional space on a magic item such as the handle of a weapon, edge of a shield, or the back of a breastplate that can hold one or more cubes. When a magic item with a cube chamber is loaded with cubes in the chamber, it is considered ready (or armed) and the magic item can be activated.Where the fuck did cube chamber come from? Are you making up a new thing to go along with Kargin’s chain gun of wands?
Cubes are simply small slots on the magic item that they can be inserted into, historically, they were generally not interchanged during combat.
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Where the fuck did cube chamber come from? Are you making up a new thing to go along with Kargin’s chain gun of wands?
Cubes are simply small slots on the magic item that they can be inserted into, historically, they were generally not interchanged during combat.hmm no and yes, its loosely based off of wand chambers, and adapted by Kargin to create physical and/or extradimensional chambers (depends on the circumstance) to hold cubes that power magic items outside of the rod, wand, staff space; like rings, amulets, etc…
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H halfgiant referenced this topic on
