Metamagic Grip and Lens Thread

  • DM

    I know that Grips came from @halfgiant as a mod from an existing item.

    @dwarf did we not discuss lenses and boosters (forgot name?)? I cannot find it documented anywhere. Which means I failed to make drunken notes on my iPad one evening. The lenses we discussed were basically what @halfgiant has concocted here. So that means it was also discussed on a temp night where I also failed to take notes.

    Basically boosters went on the back of a wand and lenses on the front. Boosters upped the power or changed the energy type, or something that I cannot recall.

    Grips and lenses do the same thing in different locations. So this implies the ability to apply two different metamagic feats to a wand. For Kargin, I don’t give a shit. He has the feats to do it anyway. As a crafter, he has to have them to make shit anyway.

    But thinking about the affect on the rest of the game. I’m up in the air on allowing them to be used simultaneously.

  • DM

    @halfgiant said in Metamagic Grip and Lens Thread:

    For instance, Twin Spell normally raises the cost of a spell by four spell levels, so using Twin Spell on a wand, rod, or staff would drain one charge from the lens that is equipped with a Blue Cube (Spell Level 4).

    I am looking at these to potentially use the variable cubes.

  • PC

    aye - tis on the post about 10e Wands, Staffs and Rods

  • PC


    I’ve lost the bubble on this, what were we waiting for before these rolled out and into affect?

  • DM

    @halfgiant said in Metamagic Grip and Lens Thread:


    I’ve lost the bubble on this, what were we waiting for before these rolled out and into affect?

    Cubes. And now math. Because there are some conflicting concept. The core rules stuff and @dwarf’s stuff

  • PC

    Whether for a lens or amplifier (previously known as grip), i presume the intent was to use variable cubes?

    One possible mechanic we could use:

    Spell Level Color MetaMagic Affect
    Low (1-3) Black & White +0, and +1
    Medium (4-6) Red & White +2
    High (7-9) Black & Red +3
    Good (10-12) Black & Gold +4
    Excellent (13-15) Red & Gold +6
    Exceptional (16-18) Gold & White Variable - Scale
    Planar (19-20) Gold & Platinum
    Variable - Low (1-9) Chromatic
    Variable - High (10-18) Iridescent Chromatic

    For Reference:

    Not a all inclusive list, but examples to work from.


    Alternative Source Spell (Dragon #325): For the cost of 1 caster level, and one slot from a class that grants the spell, you can prepare an arcane spell as divine, or a divine spell as arcane.
    Black Lore of Moil (Complete Arcane, page 76): Any Necromancy spell deals +1d6 damage, +1d6/two spell levels. Must expend a ‘runebone’ that costs 25gp per 1d6 to be generated. See feat for full details.
    Born of Three Thunders (Complete Arcane, page 76): Any [electricity] or [sonic] spell that deals damage has its damage split split 50/50 between electricity and sonic damage. Adds Fort save or deafened, plus Reflex save vs being knocked prone.
    City Spell (Cityscape, page 59-60): Any spell with an energy descriptor and cast within any urban area above the size of small town converts 50% of its damage into “city” damage.
    Cooperative Spell (Complete Arcane, page 77): Requires additional person with this feat, who casts the same spell with you. Adds +2 DC and +1 caster level to beat Spell Resistance, and uses the better of the two spellcasters’ DC and caster level. Can be expanded into multiple extra people, adding +1 DC and +1 CL for each additional person.
    Energy Affinity (Miniature’s Handbook): Subsumed by Energy Substitution; also slightly harder to qualify for. Same effect.
    Energy Substitution (Complete Arcane, page 79): Any spell with an energy descriptor can be changed to have the energy descriptor (and deal corresponding damage type) chosen by this feat.
    Ghost Touch Spell (Ghostwalk, page 34): Allows spells to affect ghosts and only ghosts.
    Imbued Healing (Complete Champion, page 60): Adds a rider effect specific to one of your domains on the tail-end of your conjuration (healing) spells. Has a table for non-PHB domains on page 53.
    Invisible Spell (Cityscape, page 61): Removes all visual manifestation of a spell.
    Lord of the Uttercold (Complete Arcane, page 81): Any spell with the [cold] descriptor can be changed to deal half cold damage, half negative energy damage.
    Miser With Magic (Kingdoms of Kalamar Player’s Guide, page 88): Not really a metamagic feat, despite being marked as such. After casting a spell, make a Spellcraft check at a DC = 10+(2* Spell Level). Succeed, and you get the spell back. Fail by 5 or more, you don’t cast it and lose the slot. Regains a number of spell levels equal to your primary casting stat modifier.
    Sanctum Spell (Complete Arcane, pages 82-83): Has an effective spell level of +1 when cast in sanctum, but -1 cast outside of sanctum.


    Bend Spell (Dragon #291, Dungeon Compendium Vol. 1): Negates cover bonuses.
    Blistering Spell (Player’s Handbook II, page 91): +2 fire damage per spell level, and -2 to attack rolls and checks if the target fails its save. [fire] spells only.
    Clawed Spell (Dragon #315): Spell deals 1d6 Force damage for every 5 caster levels.
    Coercive Spell (Drow of the Underdark, page 47): Spell deals a -2 penalty to Will saves for 3 rounds, non-cumulative.
    Consecrate Spell (Book of Exalted Deeds, page 42/Complete Divine, page 79): Spell gains [good] descriptor, and if it deals damage, half of it is divine damage.
    Corrupt Spell (Book of Vile Darkness, page 47/Complete Divine, pages 79-80): Spell gains [evil] descriptor, and if it deals damage, half of it is divine damage.
    Deafening Spell (Drow of the Underdark, page 49): Any spell that deals damage also deafens its target for 1 round. No save.
    Deceptive Spell (Cityscape, page 60): Makes a spell appear to originate from a different direction.
    Energize Spell (Libris Mortis, page 26): Deals 1.5x damage to undead creatures, but 0.5x damage to non-undead and objects.
    Enlarge Spell: Doubles the Range entry on a spell’s description.
    Extend Spell: Double duration of a spell.
    Fell Energy Spell (Dungeon Compendium Vol. 1, Dragon #312): Any spell that gives a numerical bonus gives an extra +2 to undead.
    Fell Weaken (Libris Mortis, page 27): Any spell that deals damage also deals out a non-cumulative -4 Strength penalty.
    Fiery Spell (Sandstorm, pages 49-50): Only usable on spells with the [fire] descriptor, adds +1 damage per die of damage dealt by the spell.
    Flash Frost Spell (Player’s Handbook II, page 91): Only usable on spells with the [cold] descriptor, adds +2 damage per level of the spell and creates a quasi-grease effect in the spell’s area for 1 round. Note that any spell when using the Snowcasting feat is a [cold] spell.
    Forceful Spell (Dragon #358): Adds a Save-or-Suck to any spell on any one target (even on an area-of-effect spell): Save or be knocked prone and stunned for 1 round.
    Imbued Summoning (Player’s Handbook II, page 92): Any creature created by conjuration (summoning) spells can have any spell you know of 3rd level or lower with a range of touch cast on it auto-magically.
    Sculpt Spell (Cityscape, page 63, Complete Arcane, page 83): Changes an area spell’s area.
    Silent Spell: Removes Verbal components.
    Still Spell: Removes Somatic components (and arcane spell failure for armor).
    Transdimensional Spell (Complete Arcane, page 84): Allows a spell to affect an incorporeal creature, creatures on the Ethereal Plane or Plane of Shadow, and creatures within an extradimensional space within the spell’s area.


    Earthbound Spell (Player’s Handbook II, page 91): Turns any non-personal spell into a trap. Memetically.
    Empower Spell: Level-based variable effects are increased by 50%.
    Enervate Spell (Libris Mortis, page 26): Deals 1.5x damage to living creatures, but 0.5x damage to constructs, undead, and objects.
    Entangling Spell (Champions of Ruin, page 20): On spells that deal instant energy type damage, entangle the target(s) for one round.
    Explosive Spell (Complete Arcane, page 79): Any spell that affects an area and allows a Reflex save now forces the targets to the first space outside of its effect if they fail their Reflex save, dealing an additional 1d6 per 10ft. moved.
    Fell Drain (Libris Mortis, page 27): Applying fell drain to a spell that deals damage also deals out a negative level that lasts 1 hour/CL. Get this Practical/Easy Metamagic’d fast.
    Fell Frighten (Libris Mortis, page 27): This shouldn’t be a +2… any spell that deals damage also makes the target shaken for 1 minute.
    Split Ray (Complete Arcane, page 83): Adds 1 ray to a ray spell, must be aimed at targets within 30ft. of each other.


    Chain Spell (Complete Arcane, page 76): Any single-target non-touch, non-personal spell can arc to secondary targets equal to your caster level (max 20), all of which must be within 30ft of the primary target. Damage spells deal 0.5x damage to secondary targets, 0.25x damage on an additional Reflex save. Non-damaging spells have DCs reduced by -4.
    Delay Spell (Complete Arcane, page 77): Area, personal or touch spell can be set to delay its activation for 1-5 rounds.
    Fell Animate (Libris Mortis, page 26-27): Any creature killed by a fell animate spell that deals damage rises as a zombie under your control. Can create up to 2*CL in HD of zombies.
    Guided Spell (Dragon #307, Dungeon Compendium Vol. 1): Affects only Ranged Touch spells. Ignores 9/10ths of cover or concealment. That’s not the best part - the best part is it persists for a number of rounds equal to 1/3rd level, attacking again on your initiative each round. Negated by total cover or concealment, losing Line of Effect, or moving out of range of the spell.
    Maximize Spell: Level-based variable effects get their maximum result.
    Repeat Spell: Automatically casts any non-touch range spell again at the beginning of your next turn, using the same variables as before.
    Widen Spell: Any numeric measurements of a burst, emanation, line, or spread’s area are increased by 100%.


    Energy Admixture (Complete Arcane, page 78): Doubles the damage of a spell, adding a second set of damage die of the same descriptor chosen when you take its prerequisite Energy Substitution.
    Irresistible Spell (Kingdoms of Kalamar Player’s Guide, page 87): Remove all saving throws from your spell. Yes, you read that correctly. Fuck you Rogues and Evasion. This feat becomes Blue if playing with errata, which simply adds +10 to the DC of the spell. For a +4 adjustment, a bit steep.
    Quicken Spell: Any spell that requires 1 full round action or less to cast is now a swift action.
    Twin Spell (Complete Arcane, page 84): Casts the same spell twice with the same action with identical results on their variable effects.


    Persistent Spell: Changes the duration of a spell to 24 hours. Extend makes this 48 hours (general consensus). This feat becomes Blue if not playing with DMM or many of the reduction/replacement methods detailed later in the thesis.


    Fortify Spell (Complete Arcane, page 80): Gain +2 to your CL check to beat SR per level of adjustment. Envelop the Wall is better since it’s a pre-req for Irresistible Spell.
    Heighten Spell: Treat spell as adjusted spell level for all purposes, including DC. Invaluable for Sorcerous creatures such as myself, along with Versatile Spellcaster.
    Envelop the Wall (Kingdom of Kalamar Player’s Guide, page 85): Gain +2 to your CL check to beat SR per level of adjustment. This becomes Purple if you can play with Irresistible Spell unerrata’d.

  • PC

    During out last discussion, the lens and the amplifier were suppose to be powered off of cubes, would a lens have 1 cube chamber (10 charges), and the same for the amplifier?

  • DM

    Yes, the lenses and the amplifierseach have a single cube slot.

    One charge per use is used.

    Lenses only use the low level variable cube.

    Amplifier’s use low and medium depending on the amplification effect it has.

  • PC

    Makes sense, i’m not sure i understand the ability delineation between the lens and the amplifier (besides one goes on one end and the other on the other end), what constitutes an amp power vs a lens power. That bit is a little soft for me. Is a lens a twin affect for example, and an amplifier a maximize affect? Using a wand of fireballs for a twinned maximized fireball.

    Is the programmability limited to metamagic affects, or can other capabilities be performed outside of metamagic? For example a x3 amplifier, or compression affect?

    I assume the welder couldn’t twin the spell triggered item, like a wand, and then use a lens to twin it again? Double twinning the affect.

    Are all lens’s and amp’s created equal meaning they are interoperable between wands, staff, and rod? Or are they only interchangeable within their designated magic item device group.


  • PC

    as stated in the original 10e post, lens powers alter or modify the output of a Rod/Staff/Wand - adding things like Holy (energy substitution), boost it with Enlarge or Extend, Splitting ray efx, even adding Focus or Penetration to the energy released. these tend to operate on the lower-end of the metamagic + scale, so GENERALLY SPEAKING most of the +0, +1 and +2 level metamagic fcheats are lens effects.

    amplifiers tend to wind up being in the +3 or higher metamagic fcheats, and actually PUSH more juice thru the wand - so things like Twinning the output (and yes, you could Twin a Split Ray to get a pseudo double-twin effect, but it only works with rays (as far as i’ve seen)) or Widening the blast radius, Chaining it to hit others, Admixing in extra juice or Quickening it so you can cast a spell AND shoot a wand in the same round…

    (( and in your example, as Twin and Maximize are both amplifier effects, a typical wand only takes one amp - so you’d have to upsize to a rod or staff if you wanted BOTH to work and generate your twinned maximized fireball ))

    lenses and amplifiers are interchangeable between wands, staffs and rods - the core “tech” inside those items are effectively identical, being just large preprogrammed spell batteries.

Log in to reply