10E & Feats
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In 3.5 a feat like energy substitution lets you change a specific type of energy to another type but is limited to acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic.
In 10E the energy types open the aperture way up, but now feats like energy substitution start to make less sense. To a 10E caster it doesn’t really matter, they can substitute natively, as the system works now just by using the energy types they already have chosen. If anything of the basic 5 types, a 10E caster could take one of the 5 (i.e Fire) and just use the feat to gain access to the other 4 (acid, cold, electricity, or sonic) without having to burn slots.
But now if we pivot to look at magic items, things like Metamagic Spell Trigger, were once the item is made that spell affect, and energy type are locked into the item, with the built caster level and cube type.
Changing an energy type from a wand of fireballs to a wand of solarballs, or a wand of void missiles, changed to force missiles, using a newer version of an energy substitution feat. So how would a slightly different version of energy substitution look if you were able to substitute any energy type as long as the wielder/caster had access to it (obviously paying the necessary power cost of moving up the power scale in energy types).
Thoughts?
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@halfgiant I’ve been up in the air on this feat style.
I have not removed it, but I have thought about it.
I think the energy substitution feat needs some love, but I am not sure how.
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well, SPECIFICALLY, in the 3.5 rules you’d have to take :
Energy Substitution : Acid
Energy Substitution : Cold
Energy Substitution : Electricity
Energy Substitution : Fire
Energy Substitution : Sonic
fcheatz to be able to mix/match available energy types, then burn ANOTHER 5
Energy Admixture : Acid
Energy Admixture : Cold
Energy Admixture : Electricity
Energy Admixture : Fire
Energy Admixture : Sonic
to roll out something like electric fireballs and acidic lightning bolts
which i felt was lame-as-fuck…so i just doubled down and said “Lets just make Greater Energy Substitution and Greater Energy Admixture fcheatz that let you substitute or admix whatever energy types you have access to without dicking with this one-per-type bullshit feat sponge”
thats my 2 coppers worth
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(and obviously, if you already HAVE the 10e manipulation Blast 20’r you can NATIVELY use whatever energy type you have access to for generating Voidblasts or Acidblasts or what-have-you… Substitution really comes into play if you have a prior generation Spell and wanna tweak it rather than rebuild it via the 10e system)
so, for example, if Sonja from Chaos Inc wound up in the Manaverse or modern Forgotten Mess, she could learn the energy type Entropy and start Advanced Substituting that into her 1e fireballs for some wicked asskicking
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@dwarf said in 10E & Feats:
Substitution really comes into play if you have a prior generation Spell and wanna tweak it rather than rebuild it via the 10e system)
For casters yes, but when you start thinking about magic items and the Metamagic Spell Trigger were you can apply metamagic feats to magic items spell activation affects. Walking around with a Void Missle wand, is all fine and good until you roll up on someone immune to void magic. Energy Substituion, and/or Energy Admixture becomes handy. Especially since you can’t whip out your workbench and retwiddle your void wand right there in combat. Maybe substituting void to something else to avoid the creatures immunity, like sonic, throwing sonic missles at them instead.
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since Energy Substitution lenses are cheap (as a +0 metamagic modifier) i’d go that route and save my wand charges
or screw an Admixture amp on the back and hand out a lil’ extra love thatta way… -
@dwarf said in 10E & Feats:
since Energy Substitution lenses are cheap (as a +0 metamagic modifier) i’d go that route and save my wand charges or screw an Admixture amp on the back and hand out a lil’ extra love thatta way…
Yes, now looping back to my original question whether it’s a metamagic feat, meatmagic spell trigger, infusion, Amp or Lens - the energy substitution or admixture feats need to be reworked ( beyond the 5 energy types ) given the mass expansion of energy types 10e introduced.
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So, my question to the crowd is whether or not a simple feat should be enough to allow any energy type.
To a specific energy type? with a level mod to the spell effect? Sure.
To all? I’m not so sure. -
@daermadm said in 10E & Feats:
So, my question to the crowd is whether or not a simple feat should be enough to allow any energy type.
To a specific energy type? with a level mod to the spell effect? Sure.
To all? I’m not so sure.I would narrow that to a set of specific energy types they know, and would still have to power them, you can’t upscale to a more powerful energy type for free when substituting. You could drop a +mod for the use as well, cost of energy switch.
Or you could limit it to any 5 as long as they are in the same power/lvl class (and the caster has them).
Or…we may be overthinking it.
Leave Energy Substitution largely as written, but remove the (acid, cold, electricity, or fire limitation - and sonic) limitation. I don’t think that moves the needle on game balance anyway but does add some player flexibility (or monster shenanigans).
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For Example, slightly modified from the referenced energy substitution
Energy Substitution (modified version)
( Complete Arcane, p. 79)[Metamagic]
You can modify an energy-based spell to use another type of energy instead.Prerequisite
10E Caster, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, any metamagic feat,Benefit
Choose one type of energy the caster has access to. You can then modify any spell with an energy descriptor to use the chosen type of energy instead. The spell’s descriptor changes to the new energy type—for example, an Elemental Fire, Blast 20’r affect is now composed of Solar/Sun, Blast - 20’r affect. An energy substituted spell uses the spell points of the new spell’s normal level.Special
You can gain this feat multiple times, choosing a different type of energy each time. -
@halfgiant said in 10E & Feats:
Benefit
Choose one type of energy the caster has access to.Define has access to. I want to be on the same page.
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has access to = in his repertoire of energy types
so Dregs has Elemental Fire as well as Elemental Acid and Elemental Lightning
Energy Substitution lets me swap out a 20’r Fire Blast for a 20’r Acid Blast, presuming i selected Acid for the fcheat
Advanced Energy Substitution tosses the stupid one-feat-per-type out the door, and lets me substitute Fire for Acid OR Electricity or, say, Kinetic (as its a type i have and a lower-priced modifier)
Energy Admixture lets me combine Fire and Acid (again, presuming its the one i selected) for a 20’r Acidic Fire Blast
Advanced Energy Admixture lets me mix and match whatever the hell energy types i have, so long as i pay upcharges for the modifiers - letting me honk off a 20’r Burning Blood Blast or Electric Void Blast, etc etc and so forth
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@dwarf said in 10E & Feats:
has access to = in his repertoire of energy types
so Dregs has Elemental Fire as well as Elemental Acid and Elemental Lightning
Energy Substitution lets me swap out a 20’r Fire Blast for a 20’r Acid Blast, presuming i selected Acid for the fcheat
Advanced Energy Substitution tosses the stupid one-feat-per-type out the door, and lets me substitute Fire for Acid OR Electricity or, say, Kinetic (as its a type i have and a lower-priced modifier)
Energy Admixture lets me combine Fire and Acid (again, presuming its the one i selected) for a 20’r Acidic Fire Blast
Advanced Energy Admixture lets me mix and match whatever the hell energy types i have, so long as i pay upcharges for the modifiers - letting me honk off a 20’r Burning Blood Blast or Electric Void Blast, etc etc and so forthWhat @dwarf said
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Ok. This was more or less what I thought you meant, but wanted to be clear.
I will think on the pre-requisites.
