Cubes
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- zap blows the dust off a folder *
well back in the old 2e cube days, the majority of ‘charged’ magical items would only hold 1 or 2 cubes at most - each level of wizard spells and cleric spells produced different colored cubes. 1st lvl wizard spells made orange cubes, for example, and could be plugged into things like wands of magic missiles. (( orange cubes were the ones my idiot fighter Trog liked to chew on )). a cube held 10 charges of whatever level/color magic it was tuned to
back then, the rod of absorption was often used several different ways - it ALONE amongst the rod/staff/wand category could hold twice the standard number of cubes (4) and could channel captured magic into any of the cubes that were empty or matched the incoming spell level
i remember there were also “special” colored cubes - like the ones that powered wands of wonder, which resembled a kaliedoscope of chaotic colors…
staves of magi could also absorb, but only held 2 cubes and so were often carried with one full and one empty. i seem to recall the staffs of magi and power shared a common BLACK cube that only a staff of magi could make - requring it to absorb several different spell colors in a kind of spell recipe.
to answer your 2nd question, yes - cubes were universally interchangeable and could be switched between wand/staff/rod/certain rings/etc at any time, regardless of whether FULL or not. one thing i always waited for someone to do was try to shove an 18th lvl cube into a wand of magic missles or fireball wand - but, given the propensity back then for things to go grandiosely explosive, its probably better that never happened, at the time
being a vastly older and wiser dwarf than my teenage self, i must admit there needs to be a better/easier/more generic way to charge the ruddy things - prolly one of the reasons the original idea never seemed to “gel” and got left by the wayside…
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I always liked the cube concept for powering charged items. Ever since restarting this game in the manaverse and being reminded of cubes, I have been thinking about how to implement them.
My rough thoughts are all charged items that exist here are cube based.
Cubes are made with manacite ore of varying density (age) as a base. The more dense the manacite, the higher power (spell level) the cube.
Manacite is not a rare substance in lower density. It is the higher density manacite that is so rare as it takes a thousand years or more to form.
Cubes exist from 0th level to 9th level (and beyond as we get into artifact class gear).
Cubes also exist in self recharging and non-self recharging. Self recharging requires small amounts of higher density manacite during creation to maintain the connection to the manatheareal plane.Self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per hour.
Non-self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per week.Self recharging costs about 10 times a non self recharging to create due to the cost of the denser manacite.
I have still to set costs for manacite…
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Now thats interesting, self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per hour, and non-self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per week. I like the idea of that, is there going to be a craft cube feat?
Cubes exist from 0th level to 9th level (and beyond as we get into artifact class gear), I assume in the case of staves that have multiple power options, the cube of the highest level of spell is what you load it with, or do staves take multiple cubes for each power?
How readily available is manacite, high quality and low quality? Can you make heavy manacite? And can a rod of heavy manacite be used in a mana reactor? Has any one made a Manacite Mythaller (manacitealler)?
So if i have cubes i use in my wand of magic missles, I stick it in my rod of absorption and blast a bunch of magic missles at it filling up the cube I should be able to swap it back in the wand…and i’m good to go again. Agree? Disagree? Or alternatively i could wait for it to naturally recharge.
Are cubes based on spell levels, and school of magic? Like 3rd level Divination cube? or a 5th level Evocation cube?
Anyone ever make a Golem out of Manacite?
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@halfgiant said in Cubes:
Now thats interesting, self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per hour, and non-self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per week. I like the idea of that, is there going to be a craft cube feat?
Yes
Cubes exist from 0th level to 9th level (and beyond as we get into artifact class gear), I assume in the case of staves that have multiple power options, the cube of the highest level of spell is what you load it with, or do staves take multiple cubes for each power?
You have to use the cube for the highest level ability if I recall correctly.
How readily available is manacite, high quality and low quality?
Learning about the mining and processing of Manacite was the reason for the alliance with the island kingdoms.
Can you make heavy manacite?
You cannot make manacite. Could you make it reactive/heavy? You are hurting my brain.
And can a rod of heavy manacite be used in a mana reactor?
Eventually
Has any one made a Manacite Mythaller (manacitealler)?
Yes, you have not met them yet.
So if i have cubes i use in my wand of magic missles, I stick it in my rod of absorption and blast a bunch of magic missles at it filling up the cube I should be able to swap it back in the wand…and i’m good to go again. Agree? Disagree? Or alternatively i could wait for it to naturally recharge.
You do not have blast magic missiles. You have to jsut blast any spell. It will store each spell level as a charge. So your empty 1st level cube will gain 3 charges if your rod absorbs a lightning bolt.
Are cubes based on spell levels, and school of magic? Like 3rd level Divination cube? or a 5th level Evocation cube?
Spell levels, not schools
Anyone ever make a Golem out of Manacite?
I am sure.
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Has any one made a Manacite Mythaller (manacitealler)?
Yes, you have not met them yet.
the alchemist grins and nods “I made a very, very tiny one - yes. It keeps my plants growing, pots stirring, fires burning, water running and other minor stuffs. Carved a heart out of manacite and animated it. Wanna see ? Right this way…”
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Can you make heavy manacite?
You cannot make manacite. Could you make it reactive/heavy? You are hurting my brain.
And can a rod of heavy manacite be used in a mana reactor?
the alchemist glares at you
you been sneaking into my portable cottage to read my gnotes ?? we’re not making HEAVY manacite, we’re building a decalcinator to make compressed and compacted manacite, cranking its grade up to higher than exists naturally. -
Those are very interesting answers, so many options and paths to take. Much much to do.
Another question given the formation of manacite due to extreme exposure of the manathereal plane over eons, what about gemstones or other forms of ore found in these areas, have they been affected as well?
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Dwarf,
I distantly remember in a far, far off time you had something written down about the cubes, and their colors. I don’t suppose that is lying about for you to post?
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@halfgiant said in Cubes:
Dwarf,
I distantly remember in a far, far off time you had something written down about the cubes, and their colors. I don’t suppose that is lying about for you to post?
I have found documents! info to come.
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This is base don the old 2e modified spell list that went from 1-18 / 1-14
Spell Level Wizard Cleric 1 Orange Green 2 Red Brown 3 Yellow Pink 4 Light Blue Indigo 5 Dark Blue White 6 Violet Rust 7 Maroon Lavender 8 Dark Green Platinum 9 Beige Chromatic 10 Pale Yellow Black & White 11 Navy Blue Black & Red 12 Turquoise Red & White 13 Gold Incandescent Rose 14 Bronze Blood Red 15 Silver 16 Brass 17 Copper 18 Steel Power Level Wizard Cleric ------------- ---------------- -------- Lesser Dark Gray ? Medium Glowing Purple ? Greater ?Black? ? -
This is not what will be implemented. THis is for historical reference.
I will be implementing cubes. My goal is by CabinCon.
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Colors might change, but this is my plan.
Spell Level Color Cost Empty Per Charge Creation Cost 1 Orange 1000 100 2 Brown 2000 200 3 Yellow 3000 300 4 Blue 4000 400 5 Pink 5000 500 6 Violet 6000 600 7 Maroon 7000 700 8 Green 8000 800 9 Beige 9000 900 10 Steel 10000 1000 11 Rust 11000 1100 12 Turquoise 12000 1200 13 Gold 13000 1300 14 Bronze 14000 1400 15 Silver 15000 1500 16 Brass 16000 1600 17 Copper 17000 1700 18 Platinum 18000 1800 19 White 19000 1900 20 Blood Red 20000 2000 Low (1-3) Black & White Medium (4-6) Red & White High (7-9) Black & Red Good (10-12) Black & Gold Excellent (13-15) Red & Gold Exceptional (16-18) Gold & White Planar (19-20) Gold & Platinum Variable - Low (1-9) Chromatic Variable - High (10-18) Iridescent Chromatic -
I’m fairly solid on the costs above. Those are retail.
I would be interested in some help in costs to make.
Also for discussion, should wand/staff/rod creation make max cubes? Or only enough for the sockets.
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@dwarf have you ever thought about letting cubes be destroyed if used for an “11th” charge?
I would think only for say up to spell level 3 or 4 lower effects?
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not really - it’d kinda be like loading empty brass into a gun and hoping for an extra shot
just FYI - in the old 2e game, empty cubes were unleveled… you could take a freshly emptied orange out of your wand of magic missiles and jack it into a staff of power to start absorbing spells and have it wind up a black cube (or whatever the hell color it was back then)
i THINK the core idea actually came from the old Transformers cartoon, where they’d produce empty energon cubes and just fill 'em with high-voltage electricity from most anywhere (dams, power plants, etc)
yeah, we’re OLD…
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not really - it’d kinda be like loading empty brass into a gun and hoping for an extra shot
Except they have mana of some level in and of themselves as they are magic items. but was just floating ideas as they crossed my mind.
just FYI - in the old 2e game, empty cubes were unleveled… you could take a freshly emptied orange out of your wand of magic missiles and jack it into a staff of power to start absorbing spells and have it wind up a black cube (or whatever the hell color it was back then)
Correct and I am not changing that.
i THINK the core idea actually came from the old Transformers cartoon, where they’d produce empty energon cubes and just fill 'em with high-voltage electricity from most anywhere (dams, power plants, etc)
And after reading that, some cells fired and I have a vague memory of that.
yeah, we’re OLD…
don’t need reminded…
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just FYI - in the old 2e game, empty cubes were unleveled… you could take a freshly emptied orange out of your wand of magic missiles and jack it into a staff of power to start absorbing spells and have it wind up a black cube (or whatever the hell color it was back then)
Correct and I am not changing that.
then shouldn’t your 3rd column heading in the above table be Cost Full ???
amusingly enuff, i started building a pricing comparison spreadsheet when i was figuring SOMETHING out one day - looking at the pricing difference between various 1e/2e/old dwarfE/3e stuff. i think your price per charge is LEAGUES over what std 3e is - ie the wand of cure light retails at 750 gp for a full 50 charge stick of 1st lvl spells, for example.
should prolly make it run closer to 2x the NPC spellcasting costs per spell level, which oddly enough seems to align closely with the per charge cost of staves for some unknown WotC reason…
NPC cast cost is spell lvl x caster lvl x 10…
scrolls are spell lvl x caster lvl x 12.5 to make and x2 for retail
potions are spell lvl x caster lvl x 25 to make and x2 for retail
wands are spell lvl x caster lvl x 375 (for 50 charges) to make and x2 for retail
staffs are spell lvl x caster lvl x 500 (for 50 charges) to make and x2 for retailso, in comparison -
a staff of big ohm retails at 66k (6111000) which breaks down to 1320 per charge… your grid wasn’t far off at 1100 per charge. npc is at 660 (so 2x would match)
a wand of cure light (little ohm) retails at 750 (11750) which breaks down to 15 per charge, which you have at 100 per. npc is at 10 (so 2x is a lil’ over at 20)
a wand of fireballs (std 6 dice) retails at 13.5k (36750) which equates out to 270 per charge vs your 600 per. npc is at 180 (so 2x is a lil over at 360)thats my 2 bits on it, anyhow
thoughts ? -
i think your price per charge is LEAGUES over what std 3e is - ie the wand of cure light retails at 750 gp for a full 50 charge stick of 1st lvl spells, for example.
Last i recall was those prices were from something you either gave me or we talked about. I didn’t pull them out of my ass. I do that often enough and do not deny it.
I’ll have to go into the numbers again.
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Remind me again
How many charges per cube, thought it was 20?
Is this how it was discussed?
Wands = 2 cubes?
Rods = 3 cubes?
Staffs = 4 cubes?
