Cubes
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Now thats interesting, self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per hour, and non-self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per week. I like the idea of that, is there going to be a craft cube feat?
Cubes exist from 0th level to 9th level (and beyond as we get into artifact class gear), I assume in the case of staves that have multiple power options, the cube of the highest level of spell is what you load it with, or do staves take multiple cubes for each power?
How readily available is manacite, high quality and low quality? Can you make heavy manacite? And can a rod of heavy manacite be used in a mana reactor? Has any one made a Manacite Mythaller (manacitealler)?
So if i have cubes i use in my wand of magic missles, I stick it in my rod of absorption and blast a bunch of magic missles at it filling up the cube I should be able to swap it back in the wand…and i’m good to go again. Agree? Disagree? Or alternatively i could wait for it to naturally recharge.
Are cubes based on spell levels, and school of magic? Like 3rd level Divination cube? or a 5th level Evocation cube?
Anyone ever make a Golem out of Manacite?
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@halfgiant said in Cubes:
Now thats interesting, self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per hour, and non-self recharging will recharge at a rate of 1 spell point per week. I like the idea of that, is there going to be a craft cube feat?
Yes
Cubes exist from 0th level to 9th level (and beyond as we get into artifact class gear), I assume in the case of staves that have multiple power options, the cube of the highest level of spell is what you load it with, or do staves take multiple cubes for each power?
You have to use the cube for the highest level ability if I recall correctly.
How readily available is manacite, high quality and low quality?
Learning about the mining and processing of Manacite was the reason for the alliance with the island kingdoms.
Can you make heavy manacite?
You cannot make manacite. Could you make it reactive/heavy? You are hurting my brain.
And can a rod of heavy manacite be used in a mana reactor?
Eventually
Has any one made a Manacite Mythaller (manacitealler)?
Yes, you have not met them yet.
So if i have cubes i use in my wand of magic missles, I stick it in my rod of absorption and blast a bunch of magic missles at it filling up the cube I should be able to swap it back in the wand…and i’m good to go again. Agree? Disagree? Or alternatively i could wait for it to naturally recharge.
You do not have blast magic missiles. You have to jsut blast any spell. It will store each spell level as a charge. So your empty 1st level cube will gain 3 charges if your rod absorbs a lightning bolt.
Are cubes based on spell levels, and school of magic? Like 3rd level Divination cube? or a 5th level Evocation cube?
Spell levels, not schools
Anyone ever make a Golem out of Manacite?
I am sure.
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Has any one made a Manacite Mythaller (manacitealler)?
Yes, you have not met them yet.
the alchemist grins and nods “I made a very, very tiny one - yes. It keeps my plants growing, pots stirring, fires burning, water running and other minor stuffs. Carved a heart out of manacite and animated it. Wanna see ? Right this way…”
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Can you make heavy manacite?
You cannot make manacite. Could you make it reactive/heavy? You are hurting my brain.
And can a rod of heavy manacite be used in a mana reactor?
the alchemist glares at you
you been sneaking into my portable cottage to read my gnotes ?? we’re not making HEAVY manacite, we’re building a decalcinator to make compressed and compacted manacite, cranking its grade up to higher than exists naturally. -
Those are very interesting answers, so many options and paths to take. Much much to do.
Another question given the formation of manacite due to extreme exposure of the manathereal plane over eons, what about gemstones or other forms of ore found in these areas, have they been affected as well?
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Dwarf,
I distantly remember in a far, far off time you had something written down about the cubes, and their colors. I don’t suppose that is lying about for you to post?
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@halfgiant said in Cubes:
Dwarf,
I distantly remember in a far, far off time you had something written down about the cubes, and their colors. I don’t suppose that is lying about for you to post?
I have found documents! info to come.
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This is base don the old 2e modified spell list that went from 1-18 / 1-14
Spell Level Wizard Cleric 1 Orange Green 2 Red Brown 3 Yellow Pink 4 Light Blue Indigo 5 Dark Blue White 6 Violet Rust 7 Maroon Lavender 8 Dark Green Platinum 9 Beige Chromatic 10 Pale Yellow Black & White 11 Navy Blue Black & Red 12 Turquoise Red & White 13 Gold Incandescent Rose 14 Bronze Blood Red 15 Silver 16 Brass 17 Copper 18 Steel Power Level Wizard Cleric ------------- ---------------- -------- Lesser Dark Gray ? Medium Glowing Purple ? Greater ?Black? ? -
This is not what will be implemented. THis is for historical reference.
I will be implementing cubes. My goal is by CabinCon.
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Colors might change, but this is my plan.
Spell Level Color Cost Empty Per Charge Creation Cost 1 Orange 1000 100 2 Brown 2000 200 3 Yellow 3000 300 4 Blue 4000 400 5 Pink 5000 500 6 Violet 6000 600 7 Maroon 7000 700 8 Green 8000 800 9 Beige 9000 900 10 Steel 10000 1000 11 Rust 11000 1100 12 Turquoise 12000 1200 13 Gold 13000 1300 14 Bronze 14000 1400 15 Silver 15000 1500 16 Brass 16000 1600 17 Copper 17000 1700 18 Platinum 18000 1800 19 White 19000 1900 20 Blood Red 20000 2000 Low (1-3) Black & White Medium (4-6) Red & White High (7-9) Black & Red Good (10-12) Black & Gold Excellent (13-15) Red & Gold Exceptional (16-18) Gold & White Planar (19-20) Gold & Platinum Variable - Low (1-9) Chromatic Variable - High (10-18) Iridescent Chromatic -
I’m fairly solid on the costs above. Those are retail.
I would be interested in some help in costs to make.
Also for discussion, should wand/staff/rod creation make max cubes? Or only enough for the sockets.
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@dwarf have you ever thought about letting cubes be destroyed if used for an “11th” charge?
I would think only for say up to spell level 3 or 4 lower effects?
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not really - it’d kinda be like loading empty brass into a gun and hoping for an extra shot
just FYI - in the old 2e game, empty cubes were unleveled… you could take a freshly emptied orange out of your wand of magic missiles and jack it into a staff of power to start absorbing spells and have it wind up a black cube (or whatever the hell color it was back then)
i THINK the core idea actually came from the old Transformers cartoon, where they’d produce empty energon cubes and just fill 'em with high-voltage electricity from most anywhere (dams, power plants, etc)
yeah, we’re OLD…
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not really - it’d kinda be like loading empty brass into a gun and hoping for an extra shot
Except they have mana of some level in and of themselves as they are magic items. but was just floating ideas as they crossed my mind.
just FYI - in the old 2e game, empty cubes were unleveled… you could take a freshly emptied orange out of your wand of magic missiles and jack it into a staff of power to start absorbing spells and have it wind up a black cube (or whatever the hell color it was back then)
Correct and I am not changing that.
i THINK the core idea actually came from the old Transformers cartoon, where they’d produce empty energon cubes and just fill 'em with high-voltage electricity from most anywhere (dams, power plants, etc)
And after reading that, some cells fired and I have a vague memory of that.
yeah, we’re OLD…
don’t need reminded…
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just FYI - in the old 2e game, empty cubes were unleveled… you could take a freshly emptied orange out of your wand of magic missiles and jack it into a staff of power to start absorbing spells and have it wind up a black cube (or whatever the hell color it was back then)
Correct and I am not changing that.
then shouldn’t your 3rd column heading in the above table be Cost Full ???
amusingly enuff, i started building a pricing comparison spreadsheet when i was figuring SOMETHING out one day - looking at the pricing difference between various 1e/2e/old dwarfE/3e stuff. i think your price per charge is LEAGUES over what std 3e is - ie the wand of cure light retails at 750 gp for a full 50 charge stick of 1st lvl spells, for example.
should prolly make it run closer to 2x the NPC spellcasting costs per spell level, which oddly enough seems to align closely with the per charge cost of staves for some unknown WotC reason…
NPC cast cost is spell lvl x caster lvl x 10…
scrolls are spell lvl x caster lvl x 12.5 to make and x2 for retail
potions are spell lvl x caster lvl x 25 to make and x2 for retail
wands are spell lvl x caster lvl x 375 (for 50 charges) to make and x2 for retail
staffs are spell lvl x caster lvl x 500 (for 50 charges) to make and x2 for retailso, in comparison -
a staff of big ohm retails at 66k (6111000) which breaks down to 1320 per charge… your grid wasn’t far off at 1100 per charge. npc is at 660 (so 2x would match)
a wand of cure light (little ohm) retails at 750 (11750) which breaks down to 15 per charge, which you have at 100 per. npc is at 10 (so 2x is a lil’ over at 20)
a wand of fireballs (std 6 dice) retails at 13.5k (36750) which equates out to 270 per charge vs your 600 per. npc is at 180 (so 2x is a lil over at 360)thats my 2 bits on it, anyhow
thoughts ? -
i think your price per charge is LEAGUES over what std 3e is - ie the wand of cure light retails at 750 gp for a full 50 charge stick of 1st lvl spells, for example.
Last i recall was those prices were from something you either gave me or we talked about. I didn’t pull them out of my ass. I do that often enough and do not deny it.
I’ll have to go into the numbers again.
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Remind me again
How many charges per cube, thought it was 20?
Is this how it was discussed?
Wands = 2 cubes?
Rods = 3 cubes?
Staffs = 4 cubes? -
@halfgiant said in Cubes:
Remind me again
How many charges per cube, thought it was 20?
10 per cube. Always has been.
Is this how it was discussed?
Wands = 2 cubes?
Rods = 3 cubes?
Staffs = 4 cubes?Something like that.
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should prolly make it run closer to 2x the NPC spellcasting costs per spell level, which oddly enough seems to align closely with the per charge cost of staves for some unknown WotC reason…
NPC cast cost is spell lvl x caster lvl x 10…
scrolls are spell lvl x caster lvl x 12.5 to make and x2 for retail
potions are spell lvl x caster lvl x 25 to make and x2 for retail
wands are spell lvl x caster lvl x 375 (for 50 charges) to make and x2 for retail
staffs are spell lvl x caster lvl x 500 (for 50 charges) to make and x2 for retailSo, using the Wand base cost for the base cost to make a cube, we get level 1 spell * level 1 caster level * 375 / 5 (wands make 5 cubes) = 75gp creation cost.
Retail is 2x creation = 2 x 75 = 150gpI left the cube cost for each level in there for reference . I agree that cubes themselves should be unleveled.
To fill a cube reqiures Dweomerflow (Wizard 4th) to be cast.
This costs 4 (spell level) * 9 (caster level) * 10 = 280Then you hace to pay a caster to cast and Nth level spell 10 times to fill the charges.
This is Spell Level * Caster Level * 10 * 10
1st level * 1st level * 10 = 10 * 10 castings = 100
2nd level * 3rd level * 10 = 60 * 10 castings = 600
etc.Color Spell Level Caster Level Base Cost Creation Cost Retail Cost Empty Cast Dweomerflow Retail cost Per Charge Full Cube Price Orange 1 1 375 75 150 280 10 530 Brown 2 3 375 450 150 280 60 1,030 Yellow 3 5 375 1,125 150 280 150 1,930 Blue 4 7 375 2,100 150 280 280 3,230 Pink 5 9 375 3,375 150 280 450 4,930 Violet 6 11 375 4,950 150 280 660 7,030 Maroon 7 13 375 6,825 150 280 910 9,530 Green 8 15 375 9,000 150 280 1,200 12,430 Beige 9 17 375 11,475 150 280 1,530 15,730 Steel 10 19 375 14,250 150 280 1,900 19,430 Rust 11 21 375 17,325 150 280 2,310 23,530 Turquoise 12 23 375 20,700 150 280 2,760 28,030 Gold 13 25 375 24,375 150 280 3,250 32,930 Bronze 14 27 375 28,350 150 280 3,780 38,230 Silver 15 29 375 32,625 150 280 4,350 43,930 Brass 16 31 375 37,200 150 280 4,960 50,030 Copper 17 33 375 42,075 150 280 5,610 56,530 Platinum 18 35 375 47,250 150 280 6,300 63,430 White 19 37 375 52,725 150 280 7,030 70,730 Blood Red 20 39 375 58,500 150 280 7,800 78,430
